The Marvel Cinematic Multiverse

[Neon Ignition]

That's why I think it grates on me. It's good but it doesn't fit the rest of the Marvel content. The delivery is well done but in terms of the rest of the content of the MCU you essentially have to dismiss its relevance for it to work which is fine in a way but counter to everything they've done so far to establish their success.

[Dogg Thang]

When we have Love and Thunder in the same universe as The Eternals, I’m not bothered by what does or doesn’t fit because the answer to that seems to be pretty much anything. Saying it’s counter to everything they’ve done to establish their success sounds a touch over dramatic. And yet as you’ve said, you’re giving Deadpool a pass.

Also this show is just this show and can and should be enjoyed on its own merits.

[Neon Ignition]

That's why I considered it a personal irk. For me I just find it to as intrusive as it would be if it fitted into any other franchise. It doesn't make the show less good, but it's a gimmick that breaks the illusion too much compared to how it's handled in Deadpool more deftly

[Asura]

I can kinda see both sides here, but I agree with [MENTION=3144]Dogg Thang[/MENTION] after watching the finale.

The Marvel CU franchise is reaching the point where it's a generational thing. I mean, it started what, ~15 years ago? Some kids who went to see Iron Man are watching She-Hulk with their own kids.

Disney are good at this. They understand that while old media can be evergreen (the entire reason Disney+ works), their stories have to change with the times. I mean if you watch Avengers Assemble right now, while it's still a fantastic film, the overly quippy Wheedonverse dialogue already feels a bit dated, and that's going to get worse as time goes on.

The MCU was the cornerstone of an entire era of pop media, in the way that Star Wars was, or for the 90s, the mixture of big-budget movies like Jurassic Park and Roland Emmerich movies. But that also means it's in danger of becoming overplayed. Already there are plenty out there who complain about how much media has copied its quippy dialogue style, probably unintentionally through cultural osmosis.

The way Dr Strange 2 and She-Hulk have veered into quite different directions for the franchise is a great example of how they're trying to explore this. Otherwise the whole thing could become like Falcon & Winter Soldier; well-executed but ultimately just a bit tired.

[Neon Ignition]

It's an awkward one as the trouble with the examples you give of fans watching with their kids are all properties that are absolutely thriving now with both the prior generation of fans and with new younger ones through updated additional entries that purposefully lean on the older content. Likewise She-Hulk feels like a show written very much not written with being done with peoples kids in mind also. But it's very much only one element of the gimmick I have issue with, Jen calling out the tired tropes of the MCU and subverting them is welcome and a fun idea to explore at this point, the full blown narrative breaking gimmick of the finale is just something I don't want to see more of from it.

[Dogg Thang]

That's fine. I think we'll probably just disagree on that element. One thing the discussion has brought up for me, which I didn't really consciously think of until now, is that I found myself completely going with She-Hulk and that 4th wall breaking with no problem and yet with Love and Thunder I was so often taken out of that movie and I was so aware that I was watching a movie. Rather than just going with it and being in it. And I found a little of that with Dr Strange too because I found this conflict between the Marvel story and the Raimi-isms, so when I saw the Raimi stuff that's exactly how I was thinking about it - not just being in the movie but being very aware of the filmmaker.

I went the whole journey with She-Hulk without feeling that disconnect.

[Neon Ignition]

Yep, it's a careful balancing act of crossing the established tone of the MCU with each filmmakers own unique tone. From what has been mooted about Doctor Strange 2 Raimi actually toned himself down for that one because of those considerations and it was Feige who kept telling him to go back and dial them up. It works well in the later sequences as his horror history is put to good use but the quirky elements are at odds with the prior Strange on-screen appearances.

In hindsight that's largely why I struggled with Ragnarok. The film is fun but it doesn't sit with the prior appearances at all, later it becomes clearer as Marvel is always aware of the roadmap and Infinity War & Endgame add context by continuing that line but making the tonal shift part of the characters backstory and arc development. Love and Thunder though completely ignores where they're at with that and hand waves it away to almost become a Saturday cartoon incarnation. You know the irrelevance is becoming a bit much when even the Guardians of the Galaxy characters are being written to look at Thor and think WTF

Outside of the fourth wall stuff She-Hulk I think sits well because it's a very typical MCU toned show. I assumed at some point they'd explain in the late eps that the fourth wall stuff was her way of internalising her though processes or something akin to how Ms Marvel explained the animated sequences as being a visual representation of how Khan is over imaginitive but instead they went full tilt without context and that's where I feel it lost me a bit.

[Asura]

In hindsight that's largely why I struggled with Ragnarok. The film is fun but it doesn't sit with the prior appearances at all,

Conversely, Ragnarok might be my favourite Marvel movie, and probably the one I've watched the most besides Iron Man 2, and that's only because IM2 is much older.

[Dogg Thang]

Conversely, Ragnarok might be my favourite Marvel movie

Same. And for me, it struck the perfect balance. It was really funny and yet, for me, totally worked within the context of its own story.

And moving away from Thor 1 and 2 pretty much saved the character for me and I honestly think it's how he ended up feeling like one of the most popular characters when it came to the later Avengers movies.

[Neon Ignition]

When it comes to Thor, I suppose the thing that needs to happen now - if keeping the more comedic tone - is to move to a new filmmaker and keep that element fresh if they intend to make a fifth, sixth entry etc

[Asura]

Seems they're recasting Col. Ross with Harrison Ford, following the passing of William Hurt.

Not arguing with the casting as such, but it seems unusual to recast - I mean, Ross didn't have a huge part in the franchise. I'm surprised they didn't just bring Ford in as a brand new military figure instead.

[Neon Ignition]

I won't lie... I'm not entirely a fan unless the plan is he'll be killed off in Thunderbolts or something.

Though the MCU has recast before, the multiverse angle kind of solves the issue without having to stick with the issue of inconsistency on screen. It typically happens in few cases and whilst Hurt passed away I kind of assumed Ross would be mentioned as having passed at some point and when we see the character again it will be a variant. Recasting and picking up Hurt's version at this point with Ford, when Ford himself is in his 80's feels like a touch of stunt casting with an obvious risk unless it's purposely planned as a short stint to wrap Hurt's character up on screen. It's not really generated the interest in me that it normally would.

[Dogg Thang]

Yes, it seems like an odd choice to me too. Seems like an odd role to recast with someone so high profile. Especially as Ford doesn’t exactly have a lot of good years in him. They could end up recasting him again in a couple of years.

[Mayhem]

Or Red Hulk is coming...

[Neon Ignition]

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