Official F1/Motorsport thread

[Shez]

Something else, then. If Hamilton has been penalised for getting closer to Raikkonen by skipping the corner, surely that means every driver that ever accidentally skips a chicane should get a drive through?

If Kubica makes an error and goes over a corner and ends up 24.8 seconds behind Massa instead of 25.7 seconds, that's an advantage, right? He's got closer, right? Drive through?

Probably a bad example using Massa, he's in a Ferrari, of course Kubica would be penalised. But do you see?

You're missing the point.

Hamilton let Kimi by, which seems to be a cut and dry case for most, but you have to look at the what happened into the next corner where the advantage was played out.

We all saw Kimi nearly lose the car going into the first corner which is clearly because he had been sent well off the racing line and that is due to where Hamilton had placed his car for Kimi to make the pass back - In that respect he gained a clear advantage by cutting the chicane and the consequent placing of his car.

I dont blame hamilton for doing it, that is the sign of a true racer.

[Number45]

Just watching it again, and the initial move was on the outside, which obviously changes to the inside as the right turn changes to a left. But, once he tried to get around the outside, not moving onto the escape route would surely have caused a collision between Hamiltons front right and Raikkonens rear left?

Not moving out might have taken them both out of the race.

[toythatkills]

You've got to have a stiff penalty for skipping corners and gaining an advantage unless you want to trivialise the sport.

Of course you do, but unless you enforce it all the time it's not good enough.

And this punishment is crap anyway. The rule where in the last five laps the infraction is dealt with after the race is a joke. If Hamilton had known in advance that he was going to get penalised, or had been given his drive through in time, he'd have raced the last laps differently I dare say. Probably for the worse, but to not even give him a chance to recover that he'd have had if he did this four laps earlier is absurd.

[abigsmurf]

Just watching it again, and the initial move was on the outside, which obviously changes to the inside as the right turn changes to a left. But, once he tried to get around the outside, not moving onto the escape route would surely have caused a collision between Hamiltons front right and Raikkonens rear left?

Not moving out might have taken them both out of the race.

That is true but that collision would've been deemed to have been his fault and possibly would've put him in line for harsher penalties next race.

Just like on a normal road, you have to make sure you can overtake in a safe manner before you try it.

[Richard.John]

Jarno Trulli made some good points in that if there was a wall or gravel then LH wouldn't have even been in a position to take KR. The fact is that LH couldn't overtake but didn't yield so crossed the chicane, lifted a bit and then quickly overtook the Ferrari. A position that he would never have been in if he took the corner normally. Case closed surely.

With that said, LH is a racer and I understand why. He did it on pure instinct. And James Allen has pointed out that the Macca was a lot faster at that point than the Ferrari, so who knows, maybe speed was the key in the end. The Mclaren was too fast for the conditions, and that influenced the stewards.

[Shez]

Check the video below for a great view of the incident in question:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70rXr2Mkq_M

[Richard.John]

That highlights the awesome speed and braking abilities of modern F1 cars. Blink and they have travelled a 100m down the road.

[Alastair]

I only finished watching the race at 2am this morning so a bit late to the debate. I can see it both ways after watching that video tbh. The Ferrari was clearly not coping with the conditions whether that be due to driver or car I know not. Lewis got an advantage by missing the corner, he was clearly ahead. He probably knew this, Ron said the team knew so radioed him straight away, he let Kimi back through and then overtook again. Fine.

What I didn't see (well hear) though from that video is a distinct lift off from the throttle, he clearly just blended the throttle a little to let Kimi go by and then back on it to zoom back passed, say dropping from 100% to 95%, that doesn't seem like he was giving back the advantage he gained.

I don't know the wording of the rules exactly but if it states something along the lines of giving back the advantage you gained then I don't think Lewis did that. If it just says giving back the position you gained then he did.

Shame really as it was a cracking race spoiled posthumously by rules and regs (again).

And as a PS, I've seen a good number of occasions where drivers have had drive throughs for cutting corners where no positions were gained but they did gain a time advantage.

[Alastair]

Even better video of onboard:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_wwwformulamagcom-hamiltonkimi_sport

[VR46]

Good link, can really see how much quicker Hamilton was over that half a lap, he didn't need to try and overtake there, if he'd been a bit more patient he probably could have easily passed Kimi at his leisure later in the lap/race.

Can't see the McLaren appeal changing the FIA's mind, roll on Monza in a few days

[Alastair]

I seriously recommend everyone to watch the highlights of the race on the official F1 site. A fantastic video edit of a great race.

http://www.formula1.com/services/play_video.html

I'm going to watch the British highlights now!

[abigsmurf]

The driver's view video reminds me a bit of a good tactic in mario kart DS and Wii.

If you're level at first place with another driver, brake just before you get an item box. He'll get a green shell or banana, you'll probably get a red shell or mushroom in return for losing a tiny fraction of a second. You'll then be able to use that the put a good bit of distance on the other guy.

You could even use a mushroom to skip a corner XD

</offtopic>

[Richard.John]

The reactions of those guys is just mind blowing. On that vid you can see how he almost whacked Kimi's rear end attempting the pass, but avoided in a split second.

[Dazzyman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP5pxQGlzFM&feature=related

Better outside view of it their.

I watched it only last night and I thought it was fair its just his own fault he didnt back off properly otherwise he could have overtook him maybe in a lap (cant see it being at the same point though as its a short straight unless your nose to wing). He just didnt back off he cut the chicane and by doing it was a car and nearly half ahead and instead of what you normally see of em backing right off letting em past and then having another go and loosing a couple of seconds he just lifted ever slightly on his accelerator and got into Kimis slipstream to get another unfair advantage for overtaking. If that chicane hadnt have been their he would have had to slam on got around the corner then tried to overtake so he easily gained a second of Kimmy by doing it for cutting it so he would have really needed to back off let him past then try again instead of what he did. The stewards will have seen that he didnt intentionally let him past and lift with his telemetary.

It happened in I think Bairain at beginning of season on first lap and couple of people lifted right off when they cut the chicane. I can understand the harsh 25sceconds because he would have been warned what he did and if he didnt let him past he would have got a stop and go for it. You also have to look at the bigger picture on that of he didnt back off only blipped it and was racing him until way after the start finish line; they where neck and neck so Kimi couldnt pull across to the driving line until the last moment which also gave him an unfair advantage.

Myself though I think they should get rid of it and put a bollard their or gravel.

[Rossco]

It's such a stupid system anyway. If FIA had said at the time to LH that he needed to give the full position and advantage back again then he would have, and then overtook Kimi later because he was clearly struggling.

yet they leave it until the race is over to tell him he broke the rules.

Where's the sense in that, it's just very very flawed!