Official F1/Motorsport thread

[nakamura]

Oh come on. What is the point of having a TEAM if you can't work together. Tactics should be a part of the game, better than crashing into each other like the Red Bulls.

[toythatkills]

Oh come on. What is the point of having a TEAM if you can't work together. Tactics should be a part of the game, better than crashing into each other like the Red Bulls.

What if you'd bet money on Massa?

Fixing the result of a high profile sporting event with that much money riding on it should go way above the FIA, even if it punishes Ferrari itself. It must surely be illegal?

[Bort]

What if you'd bet money on Massa?

Fixing the result of a high profile sporting event with that much money riding on it should go way above the FIA, even if it punishes Ferrari itself. It must surely be illegal?

A part of betting is understanding what could happen. Apart from a few teams if you don't count team orders in then you would be foolish.

[SaijoBob]

Anyone here ever been to the Suzuka GP? Would like a few pointers regarding getting to the circuit from Nagoya.

From memory you want to take the Kintetsu line (a few minutes walk from Nagoya station) to Shiroko. From there you can walk for around 30 minutes to the circuit, or get in a LONG queue for a taxi.

[TheForce]

100K fine is an absolute joke ! it´s an outrage that something like this is still happening, the rules are clear it isn´t allowed anymore and this was more then obvious they should disqualify the team and take away all the points, I´m not watching F1 for these kinds of things, Ferrari has a first good race in a long time and first thing they do is ruin it.... I´d rather see teammates fighting for the lead like the RedBulls and the Mclarens do !

[Senna]

First of all before I get back to the race, anyone who hasn't seen tonight's Top Gear episode should try and catch it any way you can - there was a brilliant Ayrton Senna feature for 10 minutes to mark what would have been his 50th birthday, and had Lewis Hamilton driving his 1988 McLaren around Silverstone - wow!

Back to today's 'race'. The fine is absolutely worthless, I'm sure it wouldn't even be a major deal for the HRT team. The media is going to be all over this, and I can see them and the fans not forgetting this in a hurry. Don't see a FIA council verdict coming before next weekend, because it usually takes them an age to get off their arses and make what shoud be a quick and easy judgement. For me it is easy to be completely dispassionate on this one (taking away the embarrassing lies, falsehoods and disrespect to the media and fans) - a clear breaking and disregard for the rules. Disqualification, or if not that at least something like 30 second penalty each / 10 grid place penalty for the next race. Come on FIA deliver justice to the fans, we're sick of being taken for mugs over the years.

See this clip (sorry only UK viewers I think) for Schumacher's take on it (basically supporting Ferrari):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8852931.stm

What a surprise.... I guess it's why he's a seven times champion, that single focus on the championship above all else. He acknowledges but still really fails to see what we're all getting upset about. It's also why he will be respected but never loved.

[Senna]

This is getting a LOT of heat on the BBC website. Almost all against Ferrari.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2010/07/team_orders_rule_ties_f1_in_kn.html

[Square]

From memory you want to take the Kintetsu line (a few minutes walk from Nagoya station) to Shiroko. From there you can walk for around 30 minutes to the circuit, or get in a LONG queue for a taxi.

Thank you

[Shez]

I think Schumi made a good point in that no one says a word about team orders when its coming to the end of the season, and a team lumps all their eggs into one driver, and the second driver does as he is told.

I'm not saying that what happened today is right, I think the opposite actually, but Massa has made it clear that it was his decision to move over, and even though we all know the reality is different - There is no way the FIA are going to overrule this one.

[PeteJ]

Only two races ago Alonso was moaning that the race was externally manipulated (with the safety car) and unsurprisingly he doesn't seem to mind when his own team does the same thing - and gets away with it. Everybody knows, not least the FIA, that 100k is nothing for a team like this.

The guy does nothing but moan and this is just another reason why he has become the most unlikeable driver in F1. He is a brilliant racer but he just seems to cause problems where ever he goes, I'm certain that todays result was down to Ferrari bowing down to his ego.

Yeah he is their best chance at a championship win, but it shouldn't be offered on a plate and in the race today, if he was so much faster than Massa then he should have been able to overtake.

I don't buy into the argument that this action is in someway illegal by altering the result for bets, and I do accept that team orders take place in more subtle ways, but the way Ferrari implented it today (and then pretended it didn't happen) stinks and is not in the spirit of racing. The way I see it if you are behind your team mate and in a faster car, then race him. If an equal or slower car then act as a rear gunner and help him to get the win.

We all laughed at the Bull's for taking each other out in Turkey, but at least they were allowed to race asit creates a far more exciting spectacle than the pre-determined result we witnessed today.

[Richard.John]

Whilst the Scuderia bodged the result, the bigger picture is that Ferrari crushed the rest, Red bull style. Mclaren cant be happy with that. One wonders if Ferrari now have the package to take on Mclaren and Red Bull on equal terms?

[Darwock]

edit - nvm SaijoBob already answered Square's question.

By the way if you need to stay near the circuit I'd recommend going to Yokkaichi, just a kind of unremarkable city but a few stops from Shiroko and has plenty of business hotels etc. It has a JR station too so if you have a rail pass you can get there free from Nagoya, then transfer to the Kintetsu line.

[Wools]

Whilst the Scuderia bodged the result, the bigger picture is that Ferrari crushed the rest, Red bull style. Mclaren cant be happy with that. One wonders if Ferrari now have the package to take on Mclaren and Red Bull on equal terms?

Crushed is a bit of an overstatement!

They've finally got their package good enough to take 1 - 2 at a high speed track for 1 single race. Vettel was only 5 seconds behind the Ferrari's with McLaren further behind with their new improvements not delivering.

5 - 30 seconds in a high speed track with heavy traffic is nowhere near a sign of crushing dominance.

Aside from that, I enjoyed the race. A great start with some very quick pit strategies and the with the ominous signs of Alonso throwing his toys out the pram again, Ferrari finally decided to let him have his way. Terrible decision, and a bad move all round. I was slightly disappointed that Alonso did not get booed by the crowd like Schumacher did all those years ago, but the sense of elation was absent through the celebrations and the Press Conference.

Although the race was good, after it ended it felt quite dirty. Like a footballer who has feigned an injury after a tackle and the subsequent free kick went on to win the match.

It'll be interesting to see if Massa & Alonso get tangled in a similar situation again with the Championship at stake.

[Flabio]

I did think for a moment that Massa was going to let Vettel through into second near the end out of spite...

[Charlie]

We all laughed at the Bull's for taking each other out in Turkey, but at least they were allowed to race asit creates a far more exciting spectacle than the pre-determined result we witnessed today.

That's exactly it. Ferrari robbed us of a possible spectacle. There was every chance that with Massa driving defensively to hold off Alonso, Vettel would have closed right up on them and joined the fray for an exciting three-way fight. Ferrari cheated us of that.