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[Matt]

Turkey is good for protein too. There's a lot of stuff with protein in it, be a bit more open minded Actually, meats typically have high fat content too so you do need to watch it a bit.

You may think that but it isn't true in the slightest. I would have thought you'd be on a much higher cal intake? I put on loads of muscle (stuck at 12% fat, rest lean right up to 100kg) on 15% protein with a diet set by the fitness fella at work. I got back into cycling/running for the half marathon and have lost some muscle 'cos I don't do the strength excersises. I'm down to 83.5kg last time I weighed in and have had to UP my cal intake to 3980 a day to keep the weight on. That's about 150g of protein a day if my math is up to it this late at night. More than enough.

Well the old adage used to be 40-40-20 : 40% carbs, 40% protein, 20% fats.

I suspect in your case, you just hit upon what works for you. And that's a point one can never emphasise enough - what works for one may not work for another. 150g protein isn't enough for me; on the other hand, I up my carbs too much and I can get fat real quick.

Why are you on so little? I thought you were bulking up?

I've been trying to get my fat level down to a reasonable percentage. A few months back, when I started at the gym, I went kind of crazy on mass-gainers. Put on a lot of weight, half muscle half fat. And the fat has kind of stuck, really having trouble getting it off.

Now saying all that, today I hit a real bad patch. My training has really been taking a hit. The trouble is I've been restricting my carbs but not adjusting my training accordingly. My training is very brutal, I push myself well beyond the average person who thinks they're training hard. I've just learnt that doing that while on low carbs isn't too smart. I was good for the first few sets, then I'd drop off and slow right down.

Yesterday, after a weekend of eating well, I had a great chest session. Today, 2 days of low carbs, and I could have passed out after two hard sets of deadlifts.

I don't want to train like that, so I've decided to try and get the balance. I've not worked it out yet, but I'll likely get up to 3,000 calories a day. I'll read up on my notes last time I bulked when I gained too much fat, do a few sums considering how much fat I gained in the time frame and work out how much excess calories I was having, and the difference is what I'll eat Or something like that.

Plus it gives me the perfect time to start on the Alri Jungle Warfare, heard great things about it and looking forward to seeing what it can do for me over the 12 week course.

Considering I've been setting personal bests while dieting, I'm expecting big things in my future

Oof! No no no. Don't drink them unless you need to replace the energy. You'll get a short hit else and then your energy levels will drop like crazy. Better if you mix 'em youself, cheaper too.

Totally correct. You won't store the energy drink for using a few hours later, other than possibly turning some to fat.

I'm off to bed now. Did about 48 miles on the bike today, 5 mile run yesterday and have a 12 mile tomorrow. Yawn! See you fatties

See that's why you need all those bloody carbs!

[Matt]

Good workout on back, shoulders and triceps this evening. And back in again tomorrow for chest and biceps. Really going for a big push on it this next week or two. And I've got some new carb/protein shake coming tomorrow which has 80g carbs and 50g protein in one serving. This should really help me gain.

Glad your workout went well. We'll all have to start posting our workouts sometime, would make an interesting read.

Sounds like the new shake mix is BIG? Is it a MRP (Meal Replacement Powder) as it sounds loaded!!

If you don't gain on that there's something wrong with you

[Rossco]

Its Pro Lab N Large 2. Its not advertised as a meal replacement but has alot of stuff in it, its actually 88g carbs and 52g protein. 600+ calories. 2 of them a day in between breakfast and lunch and then after my workout and your laughing. Here's a link if your interested, heard nothing but good things about it and seems to get good write ups most places on the web too.

http://monstersupplements.com/store/product_detail-487-lang-1.html

[Matt]

ProLab's a pretty good brand. They've been around a while, good science behind them.

Remember that tub is only about 18 servings though! Can I suggest you may be try only 2 scoops with milk rather than 4 scoops with water. The milk will be a good source of casein protein, which will complement the whey in the ProLab. Plus it'll probably taste nicer Else that tub will only last a week....

Personally I recommend CNP Pro Mass, but then that's what my customers want as well so that's the only mass gainer I stock. That ProLab will do the trick mate

[charlesr]

Marcus, the good thing about calories is that once you've looked at the number a few times for each food, you know without looking after that, so no need to obsess about it.

When it comes to buying pre-prepared food, there's another aspect to be wary of..... "Low fat" stuff. e.g. coleslaw. The reason full fat stuff is so nice is that the fat lends the food a great texture and makes it a pleasure to eat. To replicate this in "low fat" stuff, they pump all sorts of **** in there.... Just buy the normal stuff and eat less of it is my advice. e.g. "fresh" humous is made of chickpeas and tahini basically. Why the **** is there a load of other stuff in there? eh tesco? eh? Guacamole is made of chillies, avocado, lemon juice and other natural stuff. What the hell is all the other stuff in there? Madness. Wafer thin ham "not less than 79% meat" - WTF I WANT 100% MEAT!!! I'm not paying for added water - GTF!
And don't get me started on all these "active" yoghurts. Bloody Bio this, Live Culture that. How do they possibly know which cultures I've got in MY stomach already? It's almost impossible to find a yoghurt that hasn't got this crap in now. And each manufacturer has it's own miracle bacteria that is far superior to all the others.
And finally. Eating margarine. Oh. My. God. The devil's own product margarine is. We'll take some perfectly good oils, process it so much that your body is totally unable to do anything with it and then counteract this by adding in plant sterols and whatnot which reduce your cholestorol levels thus making it a "healthy product".

If you aren't eating properly, e.g. on a weird diet, you need to take vitamin supplements. I don't because I'm careful to ensure I eat everything I need, but if you don't know what you are doing (which I guess is most people), then timed-release vitamins can help keep you in balance. My normal advice on getting the balance from food is eat as many different colours of fruit and veg as possible - don't restrict yourself to the same ones day in day out.

And anyone on atkins? Eat more fibre ffs. You'll die of bowel cancer otherwise. Your corpse will be lovely and thin though.

[charlesr]

Wah. You're up late Chain? I'm off to bed - that rant took it out of me.

[Matt]

LOL I don't open until 12.30, so I tend to stay up pretty late and not worry about getting up in the morning until I feel like it. Best job ever

[Nijo]

Top Tip!
If you have food poisoning, don't try to go swimming.

I'll give you that one for free.

[Nijo]

Chain, thanks for the notes. I'll check out that pair of sites...

[Roost]

The MRM stuff turned up today, all i can see is it says 1 scoop of the powder, there isn't a scoop with it and it doesn't say how big a scoop, how much should i be using?

[Roost]

Woo, scrap that found a scoop buried in the powder, felt like a pirate finding treasure

[Rossco]

Thats always the fun thing when getting new stuff, looking for the scoop!

[Matt]

Indeed Bury your hand in and hope it's somewhere near the top. Next tub, use this scoop until you hit the new one. Clever hey?

So you liking it Roost?

For anyone considering Alri Jungle Warfare, let me say that after a day and a half I'm feeling kind of wierd. Within 25 minutes of taking a pill I want to go to sleep - didn't think it would get in my system that fat, but 3 out of the 4 pills I've had have had the same effect. Slight spaced out feeling, and VERY lucid dreams last night - another common side effect.

Hopefully I'll start seeing the positive effects soon

[Roost]

I had one mid afternoon just water and a scoop nicely mixed in a shaker though and it was ok. Had another a little while ago after a short workout that was half water and half semi skimmed milk and i have to say it was rather nice!

Think the shaker helps as it goes super frothy but it's really smooth and creamy and tastes really nice (stawberry and banana flavour)

[charlesr]

Top Tip!
If you have food poisoning, don't try to go swimming.

I'll give you that one for free.

I got salmonela (sp??). I couldn't get out of bed, let alone leave the house and go swimming. Not that I could get any rest in bed. Twas a complete nightmare. Went down to 9 stone.... wtf. 9 stone. If I turned sideways on I disappeared. Went back up to my normal 10.5 as soon as it went away though.
My free advice - don't eat hotdogs at sunday markets.