The Relationship Thread-Good, Bad or Indifferent.

[Friction]

A very good friend I have believes that there is something in a woman's mind that stops them from admitting the truth of an affair, even with evidence staring them in the face.

Just to add my opinion I'd be inclined to agree with that statement. Split with an ex few years back and I suspected she was upto no good. I confronted her saying that I felt something was wrong with 'us' and that things weren't as good as they used to be, she denied this and told me I was paranoid and all the usual things, and yet the NEXT DAY she called me wanting a break - and yet never apologised or awknowledged the fact she pinned all this paranoid crap on me. Which as you can imagine was quite annoying!

End result was we floundered for a few weeks but ultimately split. Surprise surprise a couple of weeks after dumping me she had a new boyfriend, going on holiday with him and what not and thus it was pretty obvious what had happened. Again I confronted her - because I knew I had been lied to - and I actually had proof! Clearly one of her 'friends' took exception to her treatment of me (I'd been rather seriously ill (long story - was documented here once upon a time!)) and sent me a virtual dossier full of quotes and clippings of her actions and words from social networking sites and forums - which I admit was pretty messed up and someone clearly didn't like her actions, but gave me the info I needed and ultimately gave me some closure.

I did email her after getting this info and said 'I don't think you were honest with me were you?' and eluded to the fact that 'someone' had told me about her behaviour - ironically in a round about way it was actually herself that told me She replied in expected rant fashion - first line reading 'I know you think I cheated on you, but I don't care what you think' - which was funny because I never used the word cheat anywhere in any communications at all - don't think I even said it when things were going belly up either...

Pretty much told me all I needed to know and she still wouldn't admit it, and still never apologised for putting it all onto me +1 for ignorance and frankly I'm SO much better off out it!

[Spooky]

This to me seems like the golden ticket. Have you explained this to her? Ask her, given that she lied about everything else AND was at a hotel, why should you believe her now?

Like you, I hate the idea of walking away.

I did explain this to her and asked that very question in the morning. She was in such a state and all she could tell me was that she knew she'd seriously frakked up and that I should see in her eyes that she loves me and would never cheat on me. As I've said in earlier posts, the evening was different, she'd had all day to think and cry herself out and came across as very cold and emotionless. This is when she turned it back on me, saying that I obviously don't trust her to go looking for evidence of her lies, (though she says she understands why from a logical point of view), and now have tainted our relationship, made it rotten because now whenever she goes out with her friends she'll be worrying and stressing about what I'm thinking, especially when out with this particular friend she was supposed to be with at the weekend and she doesn't want to carry that because she suffered that in her previous relationship, (he was massively jealous and insecure where she was concerned, starting massive rows constantly, though it managed to last 4 years. I'm the opposite, have always let her do what she wants when she wants and have changed my own plans to fit around her, have gone out of my way for her and her friends, so its very different.)

That's when I said if she can somehow prove that she really was at the hotel alone, show show me a booking, a receipt, the money drawn from her account, anything to prove what she was telling me was true. She said she couldn't. She said she didn't know where her receipt was, somewhere in amongst her bags. I said if she wanted to make this right, she be finding it. She then said she'd deliberately binned it before coming home and that she hadn't booked it and had just walked in and paid cash which shed been drawing out bit by bit over a couple of weeks so not to arouse suspicion, (not that I even look at her accounts). She then said I was gameplaying and that if I continued this way, she wouldn't be able to handle it and it would more than likely end now.

So its a tough thing to do. Accept it as truth, though all logic says don't. Or accept it, lock it away and get on with it and fight for what we have.

Inside all of this, she is an amazing, beautiful person, everything I could ever dream of and more and that's why I can't walk away, because if I do and she spoke the truth, there would be no going back. So, I'm fighting for it, doing whatever I have to to make it work like it used to. I hope I'm doing the right thing, but I may be being lead down a path where she feels she's letting me down more gently by asking me to move out to give her her space back, telling me its not the beginning of the end but the best thing for us when in fact she's also making it easier for herself to continue things with this possible other person. Or she may be speaking the truth, its just so hard to accept. Probably not impossible, but as EDDIE_MONSOON rightly points out, even though I may come to trust her (or just ignore the issue) again and move on, it may be there, always, just waiting to jump out again. The fact I have to accept in this situation is that you can't stop people from doing what they will do, you can't control people's actions, so its up to me to decide what I'm going to. If she is cheating on me, there's nothing I can do to stop her so I'll just have to ride with it. If she isn't, then everything I'm doing to fight for this and make it work can hopefully only be a good thing. I just have to wait and see.

Oh, and EDDIE_MONSOON, Thanks for your 2 cents and support. Sounds like you went through hell. Sorry to hear that.

[Dirty Sanchez]

You already KNOW she's up to no good. You are old enough and experienced enough to pick up the signs and every avenue you probed beared fruit. The evasiveness and lying on the fly as you unravelled her story doubly backs this up.

I've done the cheating thing years ago when I was single and was cheated on back then too. I knew the signs and was right on the case when it happened.

IMO you should be out of there. Do you really think your instincts were that far off?

Life is too short to be kicked around by others. She wants to have her cake and eat it, sounds like she's getting her own way.

[Lyris]

This is when she turned it back on me, saying that I obviously don't trust her to go looking for evidence of her lies, (though she says she understands why from a logical point of view), and now have tainted our relationship, made it rotten because now whenever she goes out with her friends she'll be worrying and stressing about what I'm thinking,

No, SHE tained the relationship by lying in the first place. How totally unreasonable of her.
And then after what she put you through, she has the nerve to complain that she won't have a good time with her friends? Suck it up, woman.

You seem to be putting up with a lot of "me me me me me". But I know what it's like when you care a lot about someone - you don't realise their parasitical ways straight away.

and had just walked in and paid cash which shed been drawing out bit by bit over a couple of weeks so not to arouse suspicion, (not that I even look at her accounts). She then said I was gameplaying and that if I continued this way, she wouldn't be able to handle it and it would more than likely end now.

Oh, nothing like a lesson in who's "gameplaying" from someone who draws cash out bit by bit not to arouse suspicion and then goes to stay at hotels without telling their boyfriend!

If she is cheating on you (which isn't guaranteed, but you have every right to be suspicious), then you do not have to "ride with it". Tell her (in your own kind way) to stop being such a greedy little entitlement princess and to resolve the situation like an adult. The simple fact is, she is in the wrong by hiding this from you and as you say, if she cared enough to put it right then she'd be doing everything she could to win back your trust.

[EDDIE M0NS00N]

As I've said in earlier posts, the evening was different, she'd had all day to think and cry herself out and came across as very cold and emotionless. This is when she turned it back on me, saying that I obviously don't trust her to go looking for evidence of her lies,.

You had reason to look for evidence mate, & women are very good at trying to look like the victim when they've been rumbled.

and now have tainted our relationship, made it rotten because now whenever she goes out with her friends she'll be worrying and stressing about what I'm thinking, especially when out with this particular friend she was supposed to be with at the weekend.

Yeah my ex had a particular 'friend' too, who she would go out on the razz with & was easily lead by . The friend was a selfish, attention seeking trouble maker & a right old slapper. Go figure what happened next.

(he was massively jealous and insecure where she was concerned, starting massive rows constantly, though it managed to last 4 years.

Maybe he had reason to be jealous? Maybe this has happened b4? Maybe she never told you why he was jealous?

I'm the opposite, have always let her do what she wants when she wants and have changed my own plans to fit around her, have gone out of my way for her and her friends, so its very different.).

Again sounds exactly like I was with my ex.

That's when I said if she can somehow prove that she really was at the hotel alone, show show me a booking, a receipt, the money drawn from her account, anything to prove what she was telling me was true. She said she couldn't. She said she didn't know where her receipt was, somewhere in amongst her bags. I said if she wanted to make this right, she be finding it. She then said she'd deliberately binned it before coming home and that she hadn't booked it and had just walked in and paid cash which shed been drawing out bit by bit over a couple of weeks so not to arouse suspicion, (not that I even look at her accounts).

She changed her story mate. She says it might be in her bag, then says she binned it

So its a tough thing to do. Accept it as truth, though all logic says don't. Or accept it, lock it away and get on with it and fight for what we have.

Inside all of this, she is an amazing, beautiful person, everything I could ever dream of and more and that's why I can't walk away, because if I do and she spoke the truth, there would be no going back.

Again I felt the same way mate, but if you dont get to the bottom of it all, then not only will your suspicions eat you up but also your battle with your love for her (I love her/I hate her?, do I stay/do I leave?)will too.

I hope I'm doing the right thing, but I may be being lead down a path where she feels she's letting me down more gently by asking me to move out to give her her space back, telling me its not the beginning of the end but the best thing for us when in fact she's also making it easier for herself to continue things with this possible other person.

If she is cheating on me, there's nothing I can do to stop her so I'll just have to ride with it. If she isn't, then everything I'm doing to fight for this and make it work can hopefully only be a good thing. I just have to wait and see.

The battle in your head has begun. You have no answer from her. You dont know what the hell is going on. It will eat you up unless you get a proper answer.
Your comment of "theres nothing I can do" sounds like my thoughts exactly when I was going thru this. I should've been man enough to say "Tell me the truth now or I walk", but yeah I was head over heels in love, my head was mashed from all I had gone thru, & pitifully, I feared losing her.
It all came back & bit me on the arse when I least expected it mate.

Oh, and EDDIE_MONSOON, Thanks for your 2 cents and support. Sounds like you went through hell. Sorry to hear that.

Yes. Yes I did. It still affects me somewhat even now, & its been over 2 yrs since we ended, but then you cant just forget 8 yrs together.

I'm not saying you should chuck her, but if you dont sort it out then you too will go thru hell mate.

[Decider-VT]

She told me last night that I shouldn't take her 'loving me but not being in love with me' personally and that its just how she feels about everything at the moment.

Breathtaking.

Better to pull the knife out yourself than it is to let her keep on twisting it, so to speak- you'll be glad that you did in the long-term when you're not playing these childish mindgames with somebody that is supposed to be your loving partner.

[Spooky]

You already KNOW she's up to no good. You are old enough and experienced enough to pick up the signs and every avenue you probed beared fruit. The evasiveness and lying on the fly as you unravelled her story doubly backs this up.

I've done the cheating thing years ago when I was single and was cheated on back then too. I knew the signs and was right on the case when it happened.

IMO you should be out of there. Do you really think your instincts were that far off?

Life is too short to be kicked around by others. She wants to have her cake and eat it, sounds like she's getting her own way.

Dirty Sanchez, I agree with all you say. I too have been cheated on in the past, so know exactly what signs to look for, and they are all here. I'm watching how she was in the beginning of our relationship from a different perspective, no longer the focal point, and that's just weird and disturbing. She says she's changed in the last 4 years, but, no, she's exactly the same when it comes to 'new and exciting.' It's just getting to me that I can't find that one simple piece of evidence that will prove beyond a doubt that someone else is there in the background and that she just simply will not admit it. As I've said before, I can't walk without knowing, as much as I know I should, I just can't. But then, that may change at some point too, my emotions are in a constant state of flux, and that can't continue because I fear I literally would go insane.

Yes, she does want to have her cake and eat it. I can't allow that to happen, just out of respect for myself.

You seem to be putting up with a lot of "me me me me me". But I know what it's like when you care a lot about someone - you don't realise their parasitical ways straight away.

Oh, I realised from the start (demanding would be an understatement, even by her own admission), and have put myself out for her more than I have for anyone in the past and sadly I fear she may be the last.

Oh, nothing like a lesson in who's "gameplaying" from someone who draws cash out bit by bit not to arouse suspicion and then goes to stay at hotels without telling their boyfriend!

Yes, even I found that accusation to be somewhat cheeky and I quite rightly told her too. And then it just turned nasty, real anger and venom and contempt coming from her mouth, which unfortunately, as calm as I was, started me off too.

If she is cheating on you (which isn't guaranteed, but you have every right to be suspicious), then you do not have to "ride with it". Tell her (in your own kind way) to stop being such a greedy little entitlement princess and to resolve the situation like an adult. The simple fact is, she is in the wrong by hiding this from you and as you say, if she cared enough to put it right then she'd be doing everything she could to win back your trust.

Lyris, I so wish I could do this, resolve it peacefully and calmly, get to the truth, but this was what we tried on Monday and it just turned to absolute s**t by the end. And that's when I said we should draw a line and move on, to which she agreed. Obviously, I'm still in absolute turmoil over all this, hence me putting everything down within here. She knows she's in the wrong, or rather knows she was caught out, so now obviously she'll try and be more careful with what she does, if there really is someone else in the background. The truth is I don't think she does care enough anymore, if at all, to win back my trust, hence why she's desperate for me to move out as soon as possible.

Yeah my ex had a particular 'friend' too, who she would go out on the razz with & was easily lead by .

My girlfriend's friend is torn between two guys at the moment and is constantly dropping the whole saga onto my girlfriend to listen to and deal with. But yes, this friend, I wonder if she's even aware that she sees my girlfriend as often as she apparently does...?

Maybe he had reason to be jealous? Maybe this has happened b4? Maybe she never told you why he was jealous?

That was just in his nature from what I understand, from her anyway, so who knows what the truth is.

She changed her story mate. She says it might be in her bag, then says she binned it

I know, and that really, REALLY got to me. Putting all this down, reading everyones comments just makes me wish I'd approached this all differently, been a bit more deliberate in my tactics, but I guess when the emotions take over, you're at their mercy.

The battle in your head has begun. You have no answer from her. You dont know what the hell is going on. It will eat you up unless you get a proper answer.

The thing is, I just know she won't give me an answer, unless someone here has any words of wisdom that may make her speak the truth. I've thought of many things I can do to 'blackmail' her as such, but I can't do that, that's not me, and that wouldn't do me any favours if she really is speaking the truth. Because we've 'drawn a line', as far as she's concerned, it's done and dusted, never to be spoken of again, which I guess if kind of the point. If I do bring it up, all I know is she will go nuts and it won't go well, no matter how calm I try to be about it, she'll just use it as the perfect excuse to shout, scream and cut me off before it's even begun.

Your comment of "theres nothing I can do" sounds like my thoughts exactly when I was going thru this. I should've been man enough to say "Tell me the truth now or I walk", but yeah I was head over heels in love, my head was mashed from all I had gone thru, & pitifully, I feared losing her.
It all came back & bit me on the arse when I least expected it mate.
I'm not saying you should chuck her, but if you dont sort it out then you too will go thru hell mate.

I tried the 'truth now or I walk' line on Monday and that's when she just broke down in tears, screaming that there is no one else, pleading with me to believe her, but I couldn't, it just didn't and still doesn't add up. And like you, I fear losing her, but purely only for the reason that I don't know with 100% certainty that there is someone else. If I somehow do discover there is another element in the mix, then I will be gone, very quickly, with no regrets and no emotion. And I can feel that that is all I'm waiting for, just that one truth to appear. I've done it before and I can do it again. I think in a weird way she fears losing me because she knows that in the past, if people have screwed me over or in any way done something to affect my life or the lives of those close to me, they have been instantly cut off, with never a word spoken to them or been anywhere near them again. It's obviously some weird quirk in my personality that allows me to do this, but I've never regretted it.

Just to cheer you guys up, me and her went out yesterday, (we'd already decided on Saturday when she came back from her 'friends place' aka 'the hotel', obviously before I'd dropped the bombshell that we should go see a film), for food and a film. Now, with my head the way it is, I don't know how the hell to take this. Part of me feels it was a test to see how things would go. Part of me feels it was some form of comparison test between myself and the mystery meat. And another part feels that she is trying, honestly trying to show me it's all okay and that she's willing to try and make it work and be like it was. But, another part thinks I'm being taken for a ride. We don't go out and do stuff anywhere near as much as we did in the first couple of years, but this is purely down to her keeping me at a distance and her inability to deal with the stress of her life and her job and the fact that I've desperately reigned in my spending to get myself sorted and in the clear by next year. I explained it would be tough, but I don't think she understood the kind of sacrifices that needed to be made. And yet, all the time she told me she was fine with everything, loved the comfort of her home life, knowing I'd be coming home to her every night to chill out and relax with her etc., So, what the hell happened?

Anyway, the night went well, without a hitch- actually, that's a lie... In the middle of the film, she told me she was thirsty. Now, I have never, ever, left a film for any reason until the credits have finished rolling but, to show how much I care, I went and got her a drink. Missed nearly 10 minutes of the film and all the while I was queueing I kept asking myself 'What the frak am I doing? Why am I doing this? Am I just a mug, a man who has suddenly turned into a doormat?' and to be honest, I still don't know. But no matter how engrossed in the film I was, that question, 'who is it?' was always spinning in my mind, though thankfully, I allow myself to get so engrossed in games and films that it disappeared for 2 hours. Well, almost, because the film we saw has a scene quite simply set in a plush hotel room, nothing happens, it's just set in a hotel room. While this was on screen she kept looking over at me and squeezing my hand in what I can only imagine was some kind of reassuring way, but it didn't work and again, my brain played images I don't need in my head and felt sick and just couldn't look at the screen. If I don't get to the bottom of this one way or another, as you say Eddie, it's seriously gonna bite me in the arse, and more than likely soon.

[nintastic]

You guys need to send your stories to Take a Break, you would all get £250 to spend on cheap booze and women if they get printed.

[EDDIE M0NS00N]

And then it just turned nasty, real anger and venom and contempt coming from her mouth, which unfortunately, as calm as I was, started me off too.
Lyris, I so wish I could do this, resolve it peacefully and calmly, get to the truth, but this was what we tried on Monday and it just turned to absolute s**t by the end.
If I do bring it up, all I know is she will go nuts and it won't go well, no matter how calm I try to be about it, she'll just use it as the perfect excuse to shout, scream and cut me off before it's even begun.

It all sounds so familiar to me mate. You'll never get to the bottom if she reacts like that, & maybe thats her plan.

The truth is I don't think she does care enough anymore, if at all, to win back my trust, hence why she's desperate for me to move out as soon as possible.

You know it isnt gonna work if you're thinking like that mate. If she doesnt care enough then she obviously thinks its not worth fighting for you, which is what SHE should be doing NOT you. SHE is in the wrong. SHE should be begging for your forgiveness & trying as hard as possible to prove to you that nothing happened.

I know, and that really, REALLY got to me. Putting all this down, reading everyones comments just makes me wish I'd approached this all differently, been a bit more deliberate in my tactics, but I guess when the emotions take over, you're at their mercy.

Not your fault mate. Like you said when youre suddenly faced with it you dont plan your next move too carefully.

The thing is, I just know she won't give me an answer, unless someone here has any words of wisdom that may make her speak the truth.
And I can feel that that is all I'm waiting for, just that one truth to appear.

Now, with my head the way it is, I don't know how the hell to take this. Part of me feels it was a test to see how things would go. Part of me feels it was some form of comparison test between myself and the mystery meat. And another part feels that she is trying, honestly trying to show me it's all okay and that she's willing to try and make it work and be like it was. But, another part thinks I'm being taken for a ride.

The paranoia is taking you over mate. Its already poisoning your mind. You're on edge, overthinking. Your brain is going 100 miles a minute. You're not gonna eat, not gonna sleep. Your mental & physical health is gonna suffer next over all of this.

Now, I have never, ever, left a film for any reason until the credits have finished rolling but, to show how much I care, I went and got her a drink. Missed nearly 10 minutes of the film and all the while I was queueing I kept asking myself 'What the frak am I doing? Why am I doing this? Am I just a mug, a man who has suddenly turned into a doormat?' and to be honest, I still don't know. But no matter how engrossed in the film I was, that question, 'who is it?' was always spinning in my mind,

While this was on screen she kept looking over at me and squeezing my hand in what I can only imagine was some kind of reassuring way, but it didn't work and again, my brain played images I don't need in my head and felt sick and just couldn't look at the screen.

Re: Those last 2 paragraphs. I'll let you in on a little bit of info between me & my ex. After I discovered what was going on. I pathetically spent the next few days clinging to her like a doormat out of desperation. Then we had to go to her parents New Yrs party, as planned. I should have just not gone, but I dragged myself over there,just for her. I sat there the whole night thinking about what the hell was going on while she didnt have a care in the world. Her sister took a photo of us together that night, & I can tell you now it was damn hard trying to crack a smile for it.
Afterwards we went back to my olds' place to kip down. She tried the old pityf*ck trick on me, but there was no way I was gonna be able to perform that night. After all that happened I couldnt even sleep in the same bed as her for about 3 months.

IT WILL EAT YOU UP, & F*CK YOU UP MY FRIEND

[EDDIE M0NS00N]

You guys need to send your stories to Take a Break, you would all get ?250 to spend on cheap booze and women if they get printed.

Nah, I'd probably buy myself a 3DS with the cash instead. The 3D effect would probably be less damaging to my health than booze & birds

[kryss]

Wedding ring>pawn shop>cash>3DS


Well, that's my plan.

[Supergoal]

As people have mentioned I think you're at the stage where it's time to let go. Feelings of anxiety and not being able to trust a single word she says is just damaging your life. Perhaps spending some time apart would help reveal the truth, as well as set clear how the future will plan out. I know it's much easier said than done, and it's so hard to let go of someone you love. It's a tough one mate but if you can just take a step back and let both of you chill perhaps she'll realise the potential mistakes she's making.

[vanpeebles]

Wedding ring>pawn shop>cash>3DS


Well, that's my plan.

I think you spelt pawn wrong

[cutmymilk]

There is someone else, always. Quite bad but thats what makes it easier for me when going through this situation. Get on online dating if you have to - meet people you never would come across in real life. And they arent all crazy ugly bitches!

[Spooky]

You know it isnt gonna work if you're thinking like that mate. If she doesnt care enough then she obviously thinks its not worth fighting for you, which is what SHE should be doing NOT you. SHE is in the wrong. SHE should be begging for your forgiveness & trying as hard as possible to prove to you that nothing happened.

She tries to reassure me but it just feels weak and empty and her face just gives everything away. This morning, as has been the case for all this week, I woke up stupidly early and just felt low. When she saw me later she just kept looking at me with this sad look on her face and I asked what was wrong. She said I looked sad. I told her very calmly that that's to be expected. Her response? "I'm sad too and can't cope with dealing with your sadness too. I thought we'd drawn a line under this, I can't talk about this anymore." And what did I do? I apologized. This really is doing exactly what you said Eddie, just a lot quicker than expected. You're right, if she was concerned she'd be going out of her way but last night she came home stressed after seeing her friend or 'friend', stressing about how tired she is and how the work grief she's dealing with is making her worse, stressing at the TV not working. I tried what I could to calm her down. I then just had to leave the room.

The paranoia is taking you over mate. Its already poisoning your mind. You're on edge, overthinking. Your brain is going 100 miles a minute. You're not gonna eat, not gonna sleep. Your mental & physical health is gonna suffer next over all of this.

I'm already there mate. Not exactly the way intended to get myself a bit more trim, but hey, positives right! (Is there a 'putting on a brave face' smiley?)

Perhaps spending some time apart would help reveal the truth, as well as set clear how the future will plan out. It's a tough one mate but if you can just take a step back and let both of you chill perhaps she'll realise the potential mistakes she's making.

Hey Supergoal, you may well be right in what you say and the only wah I'm going to find out is by giving her the space she's asking for. I'd like to think she would realise what she'll be losing considering everything I've done for her over the years, but I guess I'll just have to wait and see. I can't help but feel it will just reveal I'm just an outsider who she has no idea of how to be honest to anymore. I guess she has fears of what I might do if she reveals the truth, or simply doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy. Much simpler to put me at more of a distance until she can face telling me its over and introduce the new mystery meat into the circle without looking like a complete bitch. I just NEED TO KNOW!

There is someone else, always. Quite bad but thats what makes it easier for me when going through this situation. Get on online dating if you have to - meet people you never would come across in real life. And they arent all crazy ugly bitches!

You are more than likely right mate, but in some way or another I'm bound to find out. The not knowing is killing me. During the second confrontation on Monday she told me that believing she had cheated on me would be my perfect excuse to frak off and cut her off forever instead of believing her. I asked how the frakk am I supposed to believe a word that comes out of her mouth anymore. She told me that this means there's nothing leftbetween us, how can she be in a relationship with someone who doesn't trust her? She also told me that the fact I explained I'd been patient with her for two tears while she dealt with her life and job stress means I don't want to be with her, that I'm waiting for the girl I first met in her to return. I explained that I did what she asked, to not pressure her or stress her about anything, for nearly two years. Now she tells me that the fact she could keep that distance for so long means we have deep rooted issues... I mean, what the hell?

I just want the trutth, simple as that. And a long holiday...!