London Riots

[Dogg Thang]

What does he expect "I was going to condemn these rioters and looters but then I remembered a few MPs broke some rules and some more talked to people whom it used to be fashionable to talk to but now it isn't! Who am I to condemn your antics!

Yeah, that would be a good start. Followed by people thinking, hey, that indignation I feel? Maybe I should be feeling that when people shaft my country or my community generally too, especially when those people are put in positions of power? That damage caused by economic decisions made in boardrooms or government offices that will last far longer than the riot-damage, that can affect far more lives, maybe I shouldn't be so happy with that either? Because, if I don't, and we let people away with all this stuff, then maybe it's just learned behaviour going down the chain? Maybe those at both ends don't care about who is at the receiving end of their looting and so that indignation should be aimed, yes, at the yobs but also much further?

I think he makes a good point. Sure, it's a point any moron can make but it seems to need to be made until the anti-social behaviour is deemed completely unacceptable.

Also - this Cher Lloyd song. Should we seriously put up with this?

[abigsmurf]

Finding someone to blame other than the people commiting these acts just makes it worse. These are not people who have been credit crunched, they're youths who probably haven't ever held down a solid full time job for any length of time. They are not reacting to oppression, they are not making a political point of any kind, they're just out too loot and stir things up for ****s and giggles.

The MPs didn't blame anyone but themselves and neither did the judges who jailed them. It's about time we stopped treating criminals as victims.

[Adam Stone]

Indeed. The riots happened simply because they could happen - the potential was always there as these types of people are always there, it simply took a gentle nudge for it to spark. As soon as it was seen that a handful could 'get away with it' there was nothing stopping the like-minded-mindless others to follow, not for any reason, but just because they can.

There often doesnt need to be any reason for this sort of behaviour, it's usually just because the person or persons are, to be blunt, twats.

- and just to say, I've worked with these types of people. I've worked in various schools in different communities... I've seen the difference between truly troubled souls and those who just dont give a damn.

What worries me, going back to the riots... is this was mostly kids. Children. Silly teenagers who were sharing the fun, thought it was a giggle. What happens when the true nasties spark out, what happens when the real riots start?

[monel]

I can see both sides of the argument, the riots are extremely visible, everyone sees the affects and the aftermath. However, is it not true that the money and resources the rich and those in power steal are always quickly brushed under the carpet? Isn't it ever so slightly hypocritical of politicans to point their fingers at kids who stole a pair of trainers or whatever and claim society is sick, when many of their own abused the priveleges they were given and trusted with, shamelessly claiming expenses for multiple houses, video rentals or whatever and fiddling the books? They weren't teenagers, the public put their faith in those people holding power. edit-dammit, I keep having formatting problems even after disabling noscript on here.

[Dogg Thang]

Finding someone to blame other than the people commiting these acts just makes it worse.

...

It's about time we stopped treating criminals as victims.

Little bit of a tangent there. I didn't see anything in his post that implied either.

But Shinobi's point is correct. To be honest, I don't expect much more from thugs and make sure I avoid them as much as possible (we have a particularly impressive standard of scumbag here in Dublin). Whether we actually expect more from people in power, we should. And my own point is not to excuse the yobs or condemn them less, but that we should be getting at least as angry, if not much more, when people with more power to damage our countries do just that rather than just rolling our eyes, thinking 'same old, same old' and letting it continue. This reaction is good. Communities coming together for their defence against the looters is great. Those same energies could go much further.

[Adam Stone]

Corruption takes place all over the place, all of the time, in diverse forms. It seems that, for the most part, the greatest intentions are always tainted somewhere along the line, usually because of money, greed or stubborn religious beliefs…

So yes, I suppose looking at the bigger picture the seemingly only difference in these riots, like the ones we’ve seen, are visual: people get murdered all of the time, its only when its in the paper people share their concern, what about all of the unspoken stories?

- but the true difference is that these riots happened simply because they could. There wasnt any reason behind it. Just mindless actions.

Bad things happen behind the scene all of the time, in every part of the world – however, I think the true problem here is that these acts of violence, these looting incidents, these inhuman actions aren’t actually fuelled by anything other then just not giving a damn. I’m not saying that corruption with a purpose is right, my god, no way, not at all – but there is a difference . Many of the things evidently portrayed on our tvs is simply just the mind set of many mindless individuals, that’s just a fact of our country, potentially humanity. And that’s quite scary.

[monel]

I completely agree, the thing is, as everyone is saying right now (correctly)- most of the looters were simply opportunists, doing it because they had the chance and believed they wouldn't get caught. But isn't that the exact same reason why those in power abuse their powers? Because they believe all the others are doing it, they won't get caught, or at the very least if by some very bad luck they get exposed they will be protected from the worst penalties. Much worse than that, the politicians and their rich business friends believe nothing they do is ever wrong.

[Dogg Thang]

Manchester police have been tweeting sentences -http://twitter.com/gmpolice (not often you get a full sentence on Twitter

->Open Spoiler<-

I'll get my coat

). Interesting reading. Is "ranting and swearing" at police a crime? Seems that gets you the same as if you assaulted them (four months). I don't even know what "going equipped" means but it sounds kind of rude. I imagine Ron Jeremy goes equipped.

[EDDIE M0NS00N]

- but the true difference is that these riots happened simply because they could. There wasnt any reason behind it. Just mindless actions.

Bad things happen behind the scene all of the time, in every part of the world – however, I think the true problem here is that these acts of violence, these looting incidents, these inhuman actions aren’t actually fuelled by anything other then just not giving a damn.

Bang on mate.

I'm a bit sick of ppl (not here btw) saying "fighting violence with violence isnt the way. 2 wrongs dont make a right blah blah blah". How the HELL are these idiots gonna be controlled then?

I've heard ppl talk about the opportunists who were looting, but what about those who simply trashed premises & set shops & ppls homes alight? What were they gonna gain by doing this?

And I think the Police did what they could do with what they had at the time, so fairplay on them

[Ady]

I can see both sides of the argument, the riots are extremely visible, everyone sees the affects and the aftermath. However, is it not true that the money and resources the rich and those in power steal are always quickly brushed under the carpet? Isn't it ever so slightly hypocritical of politicans to point their fingers at kids who stole a pair of trainers or whatever and claim society is sick, when many of their own abused the priveleges they were given and trusted with, shamelessly claiming expenses for multiple houses, video rentals or whatever and fiddling the books? They weren't teenagers, the public put their faith in those people holding power. edit-dammit, I keep having formatting problems even after disabling noscript on here.

I, like you can see both sides in this.

However, if the kids who looted were really making any kind of a statement about the imbalance of power, they should not have run around looting and destroying property in their own neighbourhoods.

If you really want to fight the power, go for the banks and corporations. Instead, they went for the trainers and flat screen TVs, which speaks volumes.

[monel]

I'm not for a second arguing that the kids or adults involved were trying to make any kind of statement- it was greed. I was just trying to say that everyone most definitely wants these looters punished but the people who steal billions always seem to walk away with minimal punishment.

[SH4R4KU]

You mean the people that steal billions but also pay huge amounts in tax to give to these people for staying in bed all day?

[Mayhem]

Man has a point. The top 10% earners in this country account for over half of the income tax the Government rakes in. If more of the loopholes were shut and NI was accounted for as well, no idea what that percentage might rise to...

[monel]

You mean the people that steal billions but also pay huge amounts in tax to give to these people for staying in bed all day?

No, I was probably thinking of the ones who try and avoid tax whenever possible, more the tax haven type of people.

[SH4R4KU]

No, I was probably thinking of the ones who try and avoid tax whenever possible, more the tax haven type of people.

I have an ISA with just over ?1k of my hard-earned in there... that is my little tax haven. I know you don't mean that, and you mean people with bank accounts in the Cayman Islands, but they still pay far more in tax than the vast majority nicking TVs and Blurays in the past week, no?