They beat the speed of light?

[Dogg Thang]

Without the practical applications afforded by physics research our current way of life is not maintainable in the long term, let alone any hope for a better future.

I was with you until here. You see, this doesn't strike me as a physics problem but more a problem with our current way of life. And medical research has done much more than maintain the status quo. Our lives are completely different to those of our ancestors due to research in many areas, including physics yes but also medical research.

And does Hillier not mind you having a copy of his driving license?

[averybluemonkey]

Without those medical advancements we would have a higher death rate but you just compensate by having a higher birth rate. As a result in the west we've just compensated by reducing the number of births, isn't that just maintaining the status quo? People are a renewable resource, unlike precious physical resources.

[Dogg Thang]

No. It's not maintaining the status quo. Firstly, the numbers are completely different. But secondly, and much more importantly, we're more than just a 'resource' and medicine has not simply affected death rates and birth rates (which has also been affected) but it has massively affected our quality of life too.

[Charlie]

And Charlie, if we were to believe that the truth is beyond us we might as well just go back to living in caves.

The pursuit of knowledge is Humankind's greatest challenge and one that will not end. It gives us far more than some of us will admit, and only asks for our time and patience in return. It really saddens me when people decide not to see that.

We can grasp subjective truths, but ojective truth - or absolute truth - is beyond our knowing. But it's not so bad, we can acknowledge that and still enjoy life, indeed in many ways it frees us of futile struggle and allows us to enjoy life even more. No need to return to living in caves. Let's go outside, smell the flowers, look at the the sky, hear the birds, feel the sun and sense the connection all natural things share, and realise they are beautiful and make us feel good. That's the kinda knowledge that really matters in my opinion.

The pursuit of knowledge, in my opinion, is not mankind's greatest challenge, knowledge comes easy to us, mankind has always sought knowledge and will continue to do so, but there's a big difference between knowledge and truth. When I walked outside this morning the sky looked a lovely shade of blue - that's knowledge, but it isn't truth, because a bumble bee (who apparently see in ultra violet) looking at that same sky from the same point in time and space wouldn't see a blue sky. So what colour was the sky really? Nobody knows. It's beyond our knowing. The best we can reach are subjective truths.

But don't get me wrong, I don't mean to belittle the search for understanding. I'm obsessed with knowledge, it's almost a sickness in me, I don't wanna be entertained in life, I don't care for stories, I want to know things, I have to know things, to understand things, to try and get as close to truths as possible, but is that a good way to be? I'm not so sure. Who is better off in life - a person like myself who feels he needs to know everything about something that interest him: let's say a star, from how it formed under gravity, to the chemical reactions and pressure it needs to ignite, to the elements it will produce, to how it will likely die, or another person who can simply look up at that same star and feel happy? Both of us are taking happiness from that star, but mine requires I invest time and energy learning about it, where as the better man arives at that happiness without spending time and energy.

Mankind's greatest challenge, I feel, isn't knowledge, it's learning to be content.

[Brad]

Rick Parfitt had a heart bypass in 1997 so medical advancements are indeed maintaining Status Quo.

[QualityChimp]

Rick Parfitt had a heart bypass in 1997 so medical advancements are indeed maintaining Status Quo.

*clap clap clap*

Genuine laugh out loud for that!

[Dogg Thang]

Yep, FSW wins the thread!

[endo]

And would you rather your local GP read that little bit extra about pulmonary hypertension that helped him save your elderly parent's life or would you rather he read up on and fully understood string theory?

What's that got to do with anything? I don't think anyone's saying everyone should know lots about theoretical physics. And the above doesn't really reflect reality does it? It's not as if the LHC shut down tomorrow all the physicists working on it would just say, 'OK, what shall we do now? Let's find the cure for cancer/Alzheimer's/whatever' is it? Basically, it's not the case that because some people work on seemingly impenetrable theoretical physics efforts that could be applied to more 'worthy' causes, such as medical research, are being diverted. Doctors know medicine, physicists know physics.

I'm an atheist? I don't believe in creationism. I don't care what physics disproves. I just think it stinks that those who do direct their "ethical high-horse" to medical research when as far as they know CERN could potentially open up a black hole. Or go all Da Vinici code sequel on us...

As kryss says, I think more often than not those who oppose stem-cell research on ethical grounds are more likely to be equally unkeen on things like the LHC too, frequently (but by no means exclusively) due to religious beliefs. Certainly the case in my experience anyway. And anyway, physics has nothing to do with 'anti-god crap' or really disproving anything in that way. I know that sounds paradoxical considering the foundation of science is to constantly question prevailing theories by essentially trying to disprove them so that they can be refined, but ultimately physics, and science in general, is about expanding knowledge, not diminishing it.

[Dogg Thang]

Flip side is that, without technology, none of us would have heard about Justin Bieber so, you know, in the wrong hands science can be dangerous.

[kryss]

Flip side is that, without technology, none of us would have heard about Justin Bieber so, you know, in the wrong hands science can be dangerous.

2nd place "reply of the thread" award for the Dogg. It's good but it's not the one

[averybluemonkey]

But secondly, and much more importantly, we're more than just a 'resource' and medicine has not simply affected death rates and birth rates (which has also been affected) but it has massively affected our quality of life too.

Yes but what does someone's quality of life mean in the grand scheme of things? Not very much really.

The poster in question compared physics advancement and medical advancement as an either/or scenario. Physics advancement leads humanity to greatness. Medical advancement just makes us more comfortable. I ignored the quality of life improvements because they are even less important then the life/death issue in my opinion. I can't think of anything more depressing than the meaning of our life being nothing more than procreating whilst being comfortable for as long as possible. I want my life to stand for something, not to have merely been an exercise in experiencing the same chemicals running through my brain that everyone else experiences.

[Dogg Thang]

I ignored the quality of life improvements

I guess it gets much easier if you just ignore stuff.

Out of curiosity (and I just know I probably shouldn't ask), if quality of life doesn't matter, why make any advancements at all? Why bother with the precious physical resources? In your end scenario, what is the satisfying outcome for you?

[averybluemonkey]

Quote the full thing next time, I ignored because it seemed even less relevant, I happen to think being alive is more important than being comfortable.

Pain and suffering is a part of life, and character building. The satisfying outcome in my mind has nothing to do with quality of life and everything to do with mankind's ability to control and effect the universe around us. In a hundred years time I'll be dead and gone, as will everyone who ever knew me. If I am nothing but my physical shell that means everything I was, everything I represent is gone, dust. For me life's worth is independant of your physical condition and that by contributing to technological advancements we leave behind a legacy that lasts, that society can build upon to reach greatnesses we can't even imagine.

[Dogg Thang]

What greatness though? Where is this going? Trying to find the aim here.

[averybluemonkey]

As I said - technological advancement. Although I would also say creative arts, anything that lasts beyond a person's existence.