Little Things That Irk You 3 1/3: The Final Insult

[charlesr]

Not much excuse for Israel to be bombing Gaza either. Why Hamas bother trying is beyond me too - it must be like ants trying to fight an anteater. The whole thing is a giant cluster.

[darkangel]

Hardly. But I am not going into that for a very good reason. Again: Whatever people may or may not think about the Mid east situation is irrelevant, what is happening in Paris is disgusting and it does not matter what happens with Israel and Gaza, the behavior is atrocious. Once people start to justify it with "Israel bombing Gaza", which anyway is not entirely correct then why not go the whole hog and say bring back The Gas Chambers! Because that is what people are doing.

Also, Hamas are not a weak small army, that is a myth. They are a well funded army and have done a hell of allot of damage. Besides Israel has a legitimate right to defend itself, as echoed from every part of the international community, in fact if you really want to know the truth, you should understand that large parts of the middle east (The Palestinian convoy to the UN, and Egypt), blame Hamas for every single civilian death, even going so far as to say that every rocket fired into Israel constitutes not only a war crime but a crime against humanity because Hamas are DELIBERATELY targeting civilians . This has been well documented, has the fact that Hamas use their own civilians in Gaza to protect their rockets, hide rockets in UN schools and Hospitals and force people to stay behind after an Israeli warning for them to leave before a *targeted* terrorist is struck. The fact that there are still civilians getting caught in the cross fire is their fault. Which is echoed by large parts of the Mid East community whom are sick of Hamas.

Why? Because so far Hamas has not just broken every cease fire, but ignored it too. While Israel agreed to the truce and kept to it under not only a cease fire brokered through Egypt but TWO UN Humanitarian cease fires, people in the Mid East are pissed off at Hamas, and who can blame them? Hamas wanted this war, Israel told them calm will be met with calm and Hamas fired more rockets.

The reason why Israel has gone in, is to destroy the terror tunnels which Hamas have built underground so they can smuggle into Israel and murder innocent people. Israel give thousands of tons of aid to Gaza, and Hamas have used all the money and materials to fund these terror tunnels and rockets instead of things needed for the public good, like schools etc etc. They do not give a single **** about their own people. Israel however have recently set up a hospital for innocent people in Gaza to come to on the boarder, but surprise surprise, Hamas will not let them go.

As for there being "Not much excuse for Israel bombing Gaza either", are you seriously trying to juxtapose the events in Paris with what is happening in Gaza? I really hope not, and anyone who understands why Israel are hitting Hamas hard and more importantly how Israel are doing so, would never say such a thing.

Like I said POLITICS ASIDE: There is NEVER any excuse for Anti Semitic behavior or ANY race hate. Period. The fact that this even has to be debated is abhorrent enough.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10983452/Britains-hypocrisy-over-Israel-is-shameful.html

[charlesr]

It was poorly not-phrased. I was agreeing with you about Paris, but only in my head.

My head then went on a tangent (no juxtaposition - just changing the subject a little) and said "Not much excuse.....etc" because firing missiles into an area known to be populated and probably filled with kids not allowed to leave is just crazy. There must be better approaches. Like invading. Or sending in secret squirrels. Missiles just seem so lazy. And quite why Hamas continue to throw money away on missiles they know are going to get shot down is just crazy even for crazy people - if they expect a different result from all the other times they launched they don't have a hope. By the way, I don't really understand the conflict - all the things I looked at seemed biased to one side or the other, but I know that "conflict" as a method is daft, so something has to change to end it. When both sides are saying "they started it", how's that going to resolve itself? Never.

[darkangel]

Fair enough man. Clearly we had a misunderstanding. Unfortunately the Israeli airstrikes are as precise as possible using intelligence and people are warned to leave before a strike. But sadly when you get Hamas using people in Gaza as human shields then no strike, no matter how careful will always carry the risk of inadvertent innocent deaths. In fact Israel has called off a few strikes now because they saw that children were still in the area before hand. Israel has gone in on foot, but it is incredibly difficult when Hamas use child soldiers for warfare. On the one hand Israel do their best to minimise innocent deaths and on the other hand Hamas want their own people killed by Israelis so they can try and make the world sympathetic to their cause. It's an incredibly difficult situation. Also those rockets Hamas fire in have left generations of Israeli Jewish children too terrified to sleep over in the South of Israel where Hamas always fire rockets into, conflict or not. Along other things. But the key point here is that while you are right that so far Hamas's rockets have largely not worked. They do have allot of terror tunnels which thanks to Israel going into Gaza are fully being discovered and destroyed. Along side a plot that in September during the Jewish new year, Hamas were going to invade Israel using these tunnels and slaughter hundreds and hundreds of innocent people! It would have been one of the worst acts in terrorist history.

[charlesr]

Can I pick up on the whole "warning people to leave" thing? Isn't the aim to take out the rocket launcher sites? If so, why give a warning? By the time the warning is eventually turned into a missile strike, the rockets will be long gone with just kids and stuff remaining. It may be harsh, but if they are going to have civilians killed in the strike anyway, they might as well do it straight away without warning and get the job done. They must be able to detect where rockets are fired from pretty much instantly so if it was me and I'd decided missile strikes were the answer, I'd pinpoint that and fire a missile straight back (trying to use rocket for hamas and missile for israel so we don't lose track!)

Anyway, I don't suppose there are any real answers. It will continue until there's no Palestine left or Hamas gives up.

[darkangel]

Well, the spanner in your thinking is that might work, but that Israel wish to comply with international humanitarian rules of warfare. Which is why they do things like call people in civilian buildings Hamas use to fire rockets from, fire dud missiles to try and get people to leave and fly over leaflets on mass warning people to leave the area. Israel do these things because despite what large parts of the western media would have you believe, they do not wish for civilian deaths. I know that maybe your right, in the process Hamas have left with rockets but I do believe with the air strikes they destroy the majority of rockets and places where the rockets are fired from and made on mass, of which much stock is purposely placed under schools etc by Hamas. Plus two UN schools so far!

Your probably right about your last point though , if Israel don't destroy Hamas, Egypt will. But Hamas will never, ever give up.

[k0pp0]

Yeah........

Anyway - can't say I care much for this ridiculously hot night time weather.

[charlesr]

I'll be running in it Saturday night and through the day (24hr Thunder Run relay). 28? today during today's run - pretty fierce.

[darkangel]

I love it! We moan when it rains and moan when it's hot too!

[Darwock]

Israel do these things because despite what large parts of the western media would have you believe, they do not wish for civilian deaths.

These things just happen sometimes. You clearly have a biased view of that particular conflict, but you might want to stop banging that drum at the same time as denouncing anti-semitism in France, because to be frank reading boak-inducing pro-Israel propaganda is the kind of thing that'll turn a man *into* an anti-semite.

For me that conflict represents the deplorable actions of a (pair of) country/government, not a race of people, and there should never be any danger of confusing the two.

You're what, a trainee actor or something? Living a cushy first world lifestyle of dating, videogames and internet in London?

If this needs to be modded, replace with this:

Japan has far better ridiculously hot nights than you guys, you don't even know what heat is... wusses!

[importaku]

Kind of horrible that history tries to repeat itself did WWII teach people nothing? Im hoping that it's a super tiny minority kicking off all this crap. The fact it's going on in France is kind of a slap in the face to all those people in the French resistance that fought against the Germans & lost their lives in doing so.

[k0pp0]

AND I'm getting a stiff neck from having a fan blowing constantly in my bedroom.

seriously need some humour after seeing photos of the latest gaza strife.

[Darwock]

OK I have just read up on it and I think it is wrong to label it as a case of history repeating, as this began as protest against Israel's actions in Palestine, which subsequently descended into violence. Trying to pass it off as straight anti-semitism looks just like an attempt to divert attention from the original protest.

From my limited research (nothing on the news at all over here) this was anti-Israel in origin, not anti-semitic.

[importaku]

Ah that changes things then if it's not as it seemed.

[darkangel]

No Darwock it was Anti-Semitic, Jews have been beaten up, had Swatiskas drawn on them, Synagogues being burned down and shops being destroyed with people chanting Nazi slogans is NOT Anti-Zionist, (also other rallies have taken place since then, with the deliberate intent of targeting Jewish areas). That is simply an excuse for what it was, which was Anti Semitism. People back in the 30s and 40s also used scrapegoats to justify their anti Semitic actions and people will always try and blame other things on it like in Paris. Just like you did with the below quote.

These things just happen sometimes. You clearly have a biased view of that particular conflict, but you might want to stop banging that drum at the same time as denouncing anti-semitism in France, because to be frank reading boak-inducing pro-Israel propaganda is the kind of thing that'll turn a man *into* an anti-semite.

Why? Why should I stop banging that drum? Banging the drum of speaking out against Anti Semitic rallies is somehow wrong now is it? That's news to me.

It is not propaganda, no truth is being twisted here to make you believe me, I am simply presenting facts already echoed by large parts of the international community and the Arab world.

Also, the fact that you said it could turn you (I assume you are referring to yourself when you say 'a man'), into an anti Semite is not my problem, I will not let you use any excuse to be anti Semitic or to justify anti Semitism which is precisely what you are trying to do here, I will not let you think that I, or any pro - Israel argument is your scrape goat. What you said is incredibly offensive and down right stupid to say the least and I think you should be ashamed of your words.

You're what, a trainee actor or something? Living a cushy first world lifestyle of dating, videogames and internet in London?

Don't try and think you know anything about me or my background based on a few posts I may have made in the past. Do not assume I have no idea what I'm talking about either, or my personal experiences to do with the conflict, you know nothing about me, my life or my past. Grow up.