BPX002: This May Be Our Independence Day

[PaTaito]

You're not another one of these people who thinks every immigrant on the move is coming to the UK, are you?

I hope not, because it's one step away from the childish, deep-seated idea that every German, French and Spanish person deep down wishes they were British and lived in Britain, because supposedly Britain's the centre of the world and everything happens here.

Isn't that the kind of ****e that chavvy english cod kids say when they are losing to foreigners? Pffft.

Nope, i thought i made it more than clear where i was going with my prvious line of questioning. I do think its completely obvious that the UK is a popular choice of location for migrants, particularly from within the EU, because of the most common second language point...that along with great benefits, schooling, and job opportunities makes for a very desirable destination. Not saying our flawed system is better than anyone else's, i sometimes forget how many european people post on here with it previously being NTSC-UK. Lets not pretend like we are a country who hasn't had a major influx though.

Let me put it this way i'm sure the europeans with money, sense, and any degree of standards are the ones moving elsewhere.

Out of pure curiosity, and to stoke the flames, how many would be willing to state their nationality here? Just so i can get an idea of what might be behind certain comments, like the ones above, which have come as a surprise to me. In particular the response i've had to pointing out the fact that english is the most common second language leads me to believe that a fair few of you might be from outside the UK. If i'm incorrect on that and most of us are actually british, then i apologise...but i'm curious now. It just slightly alters the dynamic of the argument for some is all.

[Protocol Penguin]

I find the "great benefits" part hilarious. I know some Austrians who tell me they just wince when they hear the bull**** "only here for the benefits" accusations from British natives, when they point out that their country's unemployment benefits are ~80% of their previous wages, unlike the paltry ?70/week or so you get here...

Anyway, it's all academic in that regard. Anyone with the guts and motivation to move to an entirely different country and know the language is automatically going to be very employable and an asset to employers.

[PaTaito]

I find the "great benefits" part hilarious. I know some Austrians who tell me they just wince when they hear the bull**** "only here for the benefits" accusations from British natives, when they point out that their country's unemployment benefits are ~80% of their previous wages, unlike the paltry ?70/week or so you get here...

Anyway, it's all academic in that regard. Anyone with the guts and motivation to move to an entirely different country and know the language is automatically going to be very employable and an asset to employers.

Paltry here maybe. Not sure how the currency holds up these days, but my family used to send around ?100 every few months to some distant relatives in poland. It was the equivalent of about 4 months wages for them at the time...

Austrians having good benefits is nice, but it doesn't really change the price of cheese in the uk. Take the polish again as an example as they make up a large portion of the migrants in the UK, and remember i am 1/4 polish myself, i'd imagine the last place they would choose to live is a german speaking country...they have a long chequered history with the germans, which may, or may not, hold up today. I know my relatives wouldn't have moved to a german speaking country for all the tea in china.

[Protocol Penguin]

Austria isn't Germany, you moron.

[PaTaito]

Austria isn't Germany, you moron.

German is the official language is it not? that or a blend of german? Besides the fact it borders germany. It makes very little difference to my point.

No need to start with that attitude though, you seem very salty indeed over this subject for some reason.

EDIT: Austria wiki: languages German (Austrian German) hmmm interesting.

[Dogg Thang]

I'm getting a little lost here. Just to clarify, are you saying that your relatives wouldn't move to Austria because they speak German and that... what? Reminds them of Germans? Is this a WW2 thing? And they don't want Chinese tea?

[PaTaito]

I'm getting a little lost here

God i hope so. Bieng a little facetious is amusing, being nothing but is lame.

[Dogg Thang]

God i hope so. Bieng a little facetious is amusing, being nothing but is lame.

What now?

[endo]

Just to echo what's already been said, the housing crisis isn't really a valid reason to want to leave the EU. It's got bugger all to do with the EU. And to assert that we might not have a housing crisis without "20-30 years of mass immigration" is also false. We've had mass immigration a lot longer than that. What about Indian and Pakistani immigration in the 50s? What about mass Irish immigration, which predates our accession to the EU?

According to this here link,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29594642

the top 5 countries for arriving immigrants in 2014 were: the US, Australia, China, India and Poland. Yes, there's an EU country in there, but it's hardly a damning indictment of intra-EU immigration, is it?

[Team Andromeda]

Outside the EU we would have to pay the same 'membership fee' in order to trade with the EU, and also have to follow the rules of the single market. Just as Norway and Switzerland do, who go without any say in the running of the organisation. So there's no argument for leaving on an economic basis, unless you really want out of EU social protection legislation and forgo your rights to paid holiday, paid maternity leave for your partner and so on.

No issues with that at all. I don't like or agree with the EU for the lack of democracy and accountability. I don't like unelected bureaucrats or the The European Court of Justice making and passing rules that affect the UK. Its bad enough that our our MP's do that, but At least you can kick and vote them out if you think they are not doing a good job

[endo]

I'll be voting to stay, for sure. I do lots of business within the EU and I'm even married to a stinkin' (EU) immigrant. The prospect of leaving the union doesn't fill me with optimism, but I'm afraid the anti-immigration crowd will win the day without fully understanding or stopping to consider the full consequences of leaving. I just hope the pro-EU campaign can really get into gear.

[endo]

I don't like unelected bureaucrats

Like who, for example? The Commission isn't elected by us, true, but there are 28 commissioners, 1 for each country, so that seems like fair representation. The Commission is also directly answerable to the Parliament, which is directly elected by the people. The Commission can also refer to the larger institution, including the thousands of civil servants, and, yes, they're not elected, but civil servants aren't elected in this country either (or any other EU Member State that I can think of, for that matter), so I don't see what the difference is.

[Team Andromeda]

I'll be voting to stay, for sure. I do lots of business within the EU

Why do you think that if we vote to leave the UK will not be able to do business with the EU ?. I like the Xbox One and PS4 are Microsoft or SONY European corps ? . Loads of Steel workers are losing their jobs thanks to the High Carbon targets of the EU (and so it leads to high energy prices) and the EU being flooded with cheap Chinese steel . Is China (which manufactures over 80% of EU goods) part of the EU too? , I don't think so

So don't give me we not be able to trade with the EU if we pull out, more so when there's parts of Spain and Greece that would go into economical collapse with out the British tourist, never mind the French wine we buy or the German cars

[Team Andromeda]

Like who, for example?.

Well how about Donald tusk for starters ? Did you vote for him, did the people of Europe vote for him to be President of the European Council ? (Yet he was the one conducting talks with our elected PM ). Nope didn't think so .... Same went for Herman Van Rompuy.

[buster_broon]

Makes no real difference to me being honest

Will probably vote to keep the status quo but will wait until closer the time to decide

For the Scottish independence vote I was yes all the way until,the live debates then what the SNP said didn't quite add up so changed to NO at the eleventh hour and glad I did because a lot of it was based on the North Sea oil and look at the state that's currently in 17 months later

Anyway currently yes to stay