UFOs exist, or do they?

[MartyG]

You're welcome to believe that too - just as I am welcome to believe that hearsay is just hearsay.

And it's not a case of covering ears, it's a case of what is more likely in the balance of probability - I'm perfectly happy to accept that somewhere out there in the vastness of space and time, there are other lifeforms, I'm not perfectly happy to accept that technologically advance intelligent aliens have travelled here over those vast distances in our human timeframe only to crash multiple times in the last 50-60 years and the world's governments have been able to recover them and keep it secret for that long.

Trump couldn't keep the fact they have a plan to bomb Iran secret for even a couple without showing it to random journalists.

[prinnysquad]

The problem is more that if this is "a perfect circle", it requires that the government, tons of people - perhaps even governments that have fallen and leaked their secrets like the Soviet Union - have all collectively kept this secret. Countless people over decades.

I think those of us who are really critical about this stuff are mainly focusing on that side of it. I just don't believe they could keep that secret.

I get that. But they haven’t kept it a secret. There’s been people talking for decades. They all fall foul of the inability to reveal ET at a press conference.

[Neon Ignition]

They've been talking about it for decades but even within that talk there are huge discrepancies between accounts so then you're in a minefield of trying to work out which claims would have validity. Also, if Aliens have the tech to travel space in the necessary time spans how do they fail at avoiding detection?

If there is an attempt to cover up the existence of aliens, why is the Government simultaneously able to keep it secret but not silence these rogue military voices?

And why, if the UFO is real, does it need to be alien? It could be an object created and moved through space and air by a deity. A literal act of God that would explain its non-Earth bound physics. There's literally the same amount of evidence and a damned sight more people who believe in that without any evidence, arguably it would be an easier sell in the US

[prinnysquad]

They've been talking about it for decades but even within that talk there are huge discrepancies between accounts so then you're in a minefield of trying to work out which claims would have validity. Also, if Aliens have the tech to travel space in the necessary time spans how do they fail at avoiding detection?

If there is an attempt to cover up the existence of aliens, why is the Government simultaneously able to keep it secret but not silence these rogue military voices?

And why, if the UFO is real, does it need to be alien? It could be an object created and moved through space and air by a deity. A literal act of God that would explain its non-Earth bound physics. There's literally the same amount of evidence and a damned sight more people who believe in that without any evidence, arguably it would be an easier sell in the US

Fair questions, Neon. I would have a stab at answering, but obviously it’s all speculation.

[wakka]

My mind and ears aren’t closed to it, I just operate from a position of scepticism.

I actually find the ‘patsy’ theory really intriguing. Maybe not as sensationally earthshaking as if Grusch’s claims proved true, but the ways in which branches of the US government have used UFOs and UFO stories to their own ends is a fascinating topic in and of itself.

Mirage Men is a really good book on this topic. Paul Bennewitz is a good example of someone used as a patsy and basically psychologically wrecked by the process. Richard Doty is a key architect. Worth googling and if you can do read the book. Vallee’s Revelations is also great and for ongoing research and reportage on this topic I can recommend the Substack Getting Spooked.

[prinnysquad]

The Paul Bennewitz affair is pretty tragic and fascinating indeed. He was a targeted individual, though, not part of a substantial raft of people coming before Congress.

Vallee’s work is fantastic. I’d like to hear the ETH sceptics present their theories behind these sightings. The thread might actually be more constructive then, rather than a witch-hunt against lunatics and liars.

[Neon Ignition]

Here's another:

If the US has been hiding alien tech/knowledge for decades, why have rival nations not called them out on it?
And if rival nations are doing the same and have similar knowledge and understanding of such advance things... why is Russia's military so astoundingly ****?

[wakka]

IMO should all be sceptical of the ETH. You would be mad not to be. Any explanation for the recent claims and sightings not involving extraterrestrials or other previously unrecorded phenomena is infinitely more likely than the ETH. As much as I love the idea of alien proof that’s just an obvious fact.

In terms of explanations other than ETs - I thought Mick West’s videos on GOFAST, FLIR and the other declassified Navy vids provided a good hypothesis.

[prinnysquad]

What do you make of the Hessdalen lights?

[wakka]

That’s a new one on me! I’ll enjoy reading up on it

btw Prin def subscribe to Getting Spooked. Really good regular emails on government UFO skullduggery.

https://tannerfboyle.substack.com/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=substack_profile

[MartyG]

Yes, I have seen that, it's a good explanation.

This is the thing with Grusch, if you're going to believe he's credible and what he's saying is true and accurate, then you can't just cherry-pick parts of it and write off other claims. If he's credible when he says the government has craft and bodies, then it follows that he must be credible that the Vatican is covering it up along with defense contractors, that the government is murdering people to keep it quiet, and the aliens are being malevolent.

[Neon Ignition]

[Colin]

I love seeing a pictorial representation that we're as daft as the Yanks.

[MartyG]

Yeah, but who would visit Australia? It's the other side of the world

[Brad]

I'm surprised so many of you are requiring evidence before you'll believe. Lots of people have said they've seen these ships and aliens, and have written their stories in books. Is that not enough for you? Billions of people believe in God and there isn't even any low Res video footage of him.