UK Energy Costs

[Yakumo]

In theory we have power. But in practice people as a collective are easy to manipulate and have no power.

sadly that's because most people are dumb ****s. Especially the 20 to 30 year olds.

[Asura]

There really has to be a breaking point and I feel like we've got to be very close to it. Even where we're at now, I'm on a good salary and energy costs are absolutely kicking my ass. Any higher and I could be in trouble. It's got to be hurting a lot of people right now and especially vulnerable people in poverty. They simply won't be able to pay - it won't even be a choice to resist. So what happens then?

Surely that's the goal, though?

I suspect the energy companies are trying to find that breaking point. They're going to find it, and if it's £1, then the price of energy will be 99p. If it's £1.50, then the price of energy will be £1.49. They're looking for the absolute limit society will tolerate, then will dip a tiny bit below that and try to stay there as long as possible.

They don't want society to break down and all businesses to close. They need customers. They're trying to find out what the maximum those customers will pay.

Proposing militia rule over actual democratic voting reform?

I'm not sure such a thing exists; like there's no political will for the government to **** itself.

[Dogg Thang]

They're trying to find out what the maximum those customers will pay.

The flaw in that is that there is a difference between what people will pay and what they can pay. And in a totally messed up way, people are often willing to pay more than they can. We've seen this in housing crashes, for example. So what happens here is a delayed effect, where we can have months of people paying and then a massive explosion of consequences and that won't be pretty. It's not like people will just nicely write in and say they have hit their limit. It's that people will die, debts will stop being paid all of a sudden, people get desperate, crime shoots up and we have serious economic fallout. You don't then at that point get to knock that 1 penny off knowing you've found the limit.

[Asura]

The flaw in that is that there is a difference between what people will pay and what they can pay. And in a totally messed up way, people are often willing to pay more than they can. We've seen this in housing crashes, for example. So what happens here is a delayed effect, where we can have months of people paying and then a massive explosion of consequences and that won't be pretty. It's not like people will just nicely write in and say they have hit their limit. It's that people will die, debts will stop being paid all of a sudden, people get desperate, crime shoots up and we have serious economic fallout. You don't then at that point get to knock that 1 penny off knowing you've found the limit.

That's all absolutely true; but I think in ~5 years' time, the utility companies will have made more money than if they were more reasonable.

I'm not saying it's ethically or morally just. Rather saying that I'm pretty sure this is what's happenning.

[Nu-Eclipse]

I'm not sure such a thing exists; like there's no political will for the government to **** itself.

PR would be the closest thing to it, undoubtedly. It would pretty much make every single vote count for something, which clearly isn't the case in the FPTP system that we currently have. This is highlighted by the fact that the left vote has traditionally been split for generations in this country despite getting more votes than right-leaning parties, hence the Tories continuing to get in despite low voter turnouts and counts.

There's obviously no political will for the Tories to want PR, sure. I'd actually argue that Labour and the Lib Dems really ought to be looking at it.

[Neon Ignition]

To be honest, I imagine in the 2016 Brexit turnout in the North of England there was a notable percentage voting in favour of it purely as a protest against the Tories and London. The de-focusing of London is decades past its due and as much as the Tories are past naval deep in UKIP levels of Brexit obsession, they were taking the opposite stance in 2016.

But in terms of voting, when this is still a common line rolled out: "People should leave him alone, he nearly died of COVID, he's doing his best!" then removing them is pointless when so many self-harming voters might vote them back in.

Ultimately, realistically, people need to get the anti-Labour sentiment out of their head. The only alternative to the Tories is either Labour or a Labour/Lib Dem coalition and both are infinitely preferrable to the corrupt scum in office now who shouldn't be allowed near No10 for the next 20 years.

[Asura]

To be honest, I imagine in the 2016 Brexit turnout in the North of England there was a notable percentage voting in favour of it purely as a protest against the Tories and London. The de-focusing of London is decades past its due and as much as the Tories are past naval deep in UKIP levels of Brexit obsession, they were taking the opposite stance in 2016.

There was definitely a "put a brick through the window" sentiment. I suspect the expenses scandal played into it; I think the Leave campaign exploited people by making out that the EU was this monolithic drain of tax money to give to fat cats.

But then people voted Tory? Boggles the mind.

[Dogg Thang]

But then people voted Tory? Boggles the mind.

What's funny about this (funny in a terrible way) is how a right-wing, money-serving set of conservatives have basically somehow positioned themselves as sticking it to the man. In Brexit, Europe was the man. After that, I think it all gets pretty amorphous but sometimes it's the "so-called experts" who might actually know stuff and so on. The very definition of the establishment has people voting for them to stick it to the establishment.

Quite a marketing feat.

[fishbowlhead]

What's funny about this (funny in a terrible way) is how a right-wing, money-serving set of conservatives have basically somehow positioned themselves as sticking it to the man. In Brexit, Europe was the man. After that, I think it all gets pretty amorphous but sometimes it's the "so-called experts" who might actually know stuff and so on. The very definition of the establishment has people voting for them to stick it to the establishment.

Quite a marketing feat.

And yet the people in power are so stupid they probably have no idea they’ve achieved this at all, their too busy in fighting.

[charlesr]

Indeed

[Neon Ignition]

But then people voted Tory? Boggles the mind.

I think it ties to the short term nature of the voters. That protest vote came amidst the whole anti-EU/immigrants drive of the media and once the vote was done and Cameron split second jumped ship he left an immediate power vacuum that allowed the likes of the ERG to gain a bigger voice. Coupled with the opportunistic wretches we now see in power it allowed the Tories to easily switch to a pro-Brexit stance given the result. This then meant they could finally nullify UKIP, take an anti-Labour position and also finally present themselves as a 'look! We do listen!' party.

You then end up with May trying to steer the party and the Brexit ship into some sort of manageable dock that pleases everyone, essentially an impossible task resulting in Brexit getting drawn out. The hard right wing side of the party then jumps on that to seize control, pushing the 'get Brexit done' angle and booting May out to get control. Johnson played it like a blinder up until that moment. It's why I still don't for one second buy that the 2019 majority was a Johnson majority, I don't think he'd accomplish that any other year. It was very much a get Brexit done/Don't Vote Corbyn vote. Neither would be a factor in 2024 so I don't for one second imagine the red wall collapse would have held, especially with Johnson being such a useless tool in the role.

That's even before the chain of broken laws and scandals.

2024 will outright be a battle between Labour and UKIP. The latter party might be essentially dead but the roots of it now control the Tories, that party exists in name only so at this point I couldn't even see anyone voting Conservative in 2024 as being a true Tory. It's going to be like the last US Presidential election. It was Democrats Vs Trump, not Democrats vs Republicans.

Voting Tory in 2024 says absolutely vile, poisonous things about the person submitting that ballot

[fishbowlhead]

Ukip, shudders.

[Neon Ignition]

There was a newsagents in our town that absolutely plastered its upper windows in I Vote UKIP window stickers back in 2016. The stickers are still there now.


The shop isn't though

[fishbowlhead]

Probably couldn’t pay their energy bill.

[fishbowlhead]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/eu-sets-sights-on-energy-market-reform-as-prices-soar/ar-AA11gDIj?ocid=mmx&cvid=7ae3ac6df0764b6fbab1b1aea588cb61

EU looking to separate electricity prices from gas, good news for us, oh, wait a min.