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    I agree that England are a side that consistently fails to deliver but I feel our problems run a lot deeper than the short comings of our manager. I cannot remember in my lifetime a time where we have ever really picked our best side as opposed to our best players. The world and his dog knows that Gerrard and Lampard don't really work together but we have soldiered on with that experiment for years.
    As a country we need to face facts, we haven't done anything have decent at a tounrament since euro 96 and even then we only played 3 decent sides in getting to the semis.
    I honestly think it's the expectation that damages us. Just think if Man u had got rid of Fergie when he was making a less than spectaular start to his Man U career.
    The sad fact is that things are not going to get better in the near future, I do blame The Premiership for this. When it was formed we were told it would benefit the national side, but that is clearly untrue. We have sold out our national side and the top clubs in the country couldn't care less about national football and will do nothing to improve things.

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      I really don't see that what you're saying is the main problem.

      It's clear to all that we have a very capable squad with a number of world class players. This should equate to semi, finals or even yes, the winning of major trophies. But how have we done over the past 10 years? Rubbish thats how.

      For this I blame the football association the players and most importantly the manager.

      I mean come on, is there anyone who seriously belives that the England team wouldn't be playing substantially better if say Wenger or Mourinho were coaching it?

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        England have an excellent side, but a weak squad.
        Being the national manager is lot harder than managing a side with huge power and the luxury of being able to sign players of any nationality.
        We have have lost Owen and Rooney so we we now have a crisis up front, Terry and Ferdinand are out and we are looking weaker at the back. We have a weak squad.
        Last edited by Kieran76; 17-11-2007, 21:52.

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          Lol i would sack the manager and the players :P

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            After the luck in the israle match tonight you have to belive luck is on our side... or someones playing a big trick on us. But anyway, honestly, If I was the manager I wouldnt play Gerrard, he hasnt played well all season and has consistantly done nothing but give the ball away when he plays for england, if mclarean and has balls he will play Lampard with Barry in midfield instead of Gerreard.

            Lampard was a bundle of energy yesterday, he worked hard in every area of the pitch and more importantly didnt run forward like a headless chicken and give the ball away like Gerrard does so often.
            Last edited by rmoxon; 17-11-2007, 23:01.

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              Uri Geller, Shimon Peres, Ehud Olmert, Avram Grant, Dana International, Elyaniv Barda, Omer Golan, Natalie Portman, Dror Kashtan, Tal Ben Haim, Yitzhak Rabin...

              YOU DID OUR BOYS ONE HELL OF A FAVOUR!!

              Last edited by Nu-Eclipse; 17-11-2007, 23:53.

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                All this talk about Israel doing us a favour (cheers guys), but we could look at it in some many ways. First if Russia did win we'd still have a chance because Croatia lost today, so a 2-0 win against Croatia on Wednesday would have seen us and Russia through instead. But we all have 12 games to play, and if we finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd it's down to us only, it just seems like our fate was in Israel's hands because of how the order of the games and results fell.
                Last edited by MarioMark; 17-11-2007, 23:57.

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                  I've got no love for Grinning Red Bastard but frankly speaking have England really been any worse under him than they were under Sven, Keegan, Hoddle etc etc? There hasn't been one England manager who has managed to keep the team performing with anything like consistency, even Bobby Robson, a bloke I've got nothing but respect for.

                  Despite this revelation I cannot believe he's the best man for the job. His appointment was clearly a rush job after they fulked up the Scolari business.

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                    The problem is that he was Sven's assistant, so he just continued in the same vein as the man he replaced. Those early games were him trying to prove he was someone different and failing miserably. Once he started playing the Sven way again, things picked up, but we still had the same inherent flaws (inability to keep hold of the ball when we are winning, tendency to 'bottle' it, etc).

                    In a way I was hoping we wouldn't qualify, just so we could get rid of McLaren. If we do make it, we all know that Euro 2008 is going to be a shambles under the current management. You can see the difference that a good manager makes by just looking at the job Hiddink did with South Korea and Australia (and somewhat with Russia), or how Greece won Euro 2004. It is not necessarily the nation with the best players that wins the tournament, it is the nation that has a manager who can mold the players they do have into a team.

                    To answer your point Red Hogg; I did actually believe going into World Cup 1998 that we had a chance of winning it. Hoddle actually knew what he was doing tactically and seemed to actually make changes to the team if things weren't working (bringing Owen into the team to replace Sheringham, despite that breaking up the famed Shearer-Sheringham partnership). He's been pretty bad at club level since, but I really think that he was suited to International Management.

                    Finally, to those who think the influx of foreigners into our game is to blame for our recent lack of success, I would say no chance. We've only ever won one World Cup and got to a couple of semi-finals in the past. Under this logic we should have been winning everything around (or at least coming close) throughout the 70s, 80s and early 90s. The sad fact is that the Premiership makes our best players look world class, because they are surrounded by foreign players who are technically better and more tactically aware than those they play with in the England team. The best players will still make it through and will be better for playing alongside these quality of players from a young age (look at how well our U-21 team is doing).

                    (ridiculously long rant there!)

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                      I personally feel the that the success of the u21 will have little impact on the national side. You look at the u21's and wonder how many of them will make the next step.

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                        Originally posted by On The Edge of Insanity View Post
                        Under this logic we should have been winning everything around (or at least coming close) throughout the 70s, 80s and early 90s.
                        True, although it is worth noting that England were truly dreadful in the 1970s - After the 1970 World Cup in Mexico, England didn't qualify for a major tournament finals again until the 1980 European Championships, missing out on four consecutive finals (2 World Cups & 2 European Championships) in the process.
                        Last edited by Nu-Eclipse; 18-11-2007, 10:54.

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                          Originally posted by Yoraths mullet View Post
                          I personally feel the that the success of the u21 will have little impact on the national side. You look at the u21's and wonder how many of them will make the next step.
                          Yeah defo!

                          And it's down to the legend that is Stuart Pearce.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Nu-Eclipse View Post
                            True, although it is worth noting that England were truly dreadful in the 1970s - After the 1970 World Cup in Mexico, England didn't qualify for a major tournament finals again until the 1980 European Championships, missing out on four consecutive finals (2 World Cups & 2 European Championships) in the process.
                            All England's failures in the 1970's can be blamed on the F.A for not giving the job to Brian Clough.

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                              Didn't he not get the job because they knew he wouldn't choose the players the FA want to be used (the ones they an make money off), and because of his attitude? It was a shame.

                              I say our worst player for England is the FA.

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                                Cloughie would have tried to have run the whole of the F.A, and we all know he would have made an better job of it than any of the clowns who have ever done it in the past.
                                I love Brian Clough.

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