Mass Effect 2 [Xbox 360/PC/PS3]

[paul]

Just finished this now. I was slightly underwhelmed by the ending. Not sure what I was expecting but it was more than fighting the Collectors in an almost identi kit battle to the encounter on the first Collector ship, in addition to the big bloody Reaper. I managed to finish that without dying, and and none of my team perished either so I assume I did something correctly...whoops forgot about Dr Chakwas. Sigh, I'll always remember the Brandy we shared together.

There didn't seem to be that much challenge in the final battle for me, and I'm normally **** at these kinds of games.

Anyway, I'm tempted to up the difficulty and / or play with entirely renegade decisions now....and possibly a different character class. Damn, I wanted to move this game on having finished it as well, but there's definitely replay value in this.

[Charlie]

How anyone could honestly believe (quote) is beyond me.

Beyond you? Come now, it's not like I was denouncing the universe we experience as explained by Newtonian science, logic and reason in favour of a universe created by Terrence McKenna's infamous 'machine-elves' (entities who people often claim to meet and interact with while tripping on powerful psychoactive substances). No, I wasn't saying everything is created and run by supernatural fairies of some sort, I was just saying the original Citadel in Mass Effect had an atmosphere about it that evoked my imagination; that's not beyond you, is it? I mean it's not that crazy a thing to say.

In case even my line of reasoning is beyond you; I'll put my defense in the hands of someone infinately wiser and more articulate than I'll ever be: "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle.

[sharky_ob]

What are you talking about? It's all about Taali I was spitting blood when the camera changed angle when Sheppard removed her helmet visor.

Imagine if she'd been hideous with 4 eyes and a beak. Sheppard would have screamed like a girl and given it toes. That would have been funny.

[Brats]

Brats, it's not that I "don't see the point", I simply think the task is too huge. Returning the characters and continuing the same depth and conflicts? I don't envy Bioware's task here.

Though I do trust them to deliver.

I didn't say that you don't see the point. I think some people are assuming that Bioware's task is so huge and the potential return so minimal that they won't bother. I don't agree with that logic.

[Uli]

On the topic of speculation, I'm sure I'm not the only one making mental links between the fact that the Elusive Man has immesurable access to information, just like the Shadow Broker... Liara return anyone?

Illusive Man = Shadow Broker? who knows...

[Charlie]

Having completed this now, I regard it as something of a paradox. On one hand I found it considerably disappointing, on the other I'm (just about) glad I experienced it.

The game's greatest merits, without doubt, are the characters and dialogue which set new standards. The story for the most part is excellent too despite the rather silly, Hollywood-like finale. And the cut scenes and general level of design and detail in regards to the sci-fi setting are top notch.

But I definitely found more to dislike than appreciate. Clumsy, clunky controls, and bland and uninspiring level design that never once conveyed the sense of a universe going on beyond the confines of the game's boundaries left the game feeling rather hollow and lifeless.

The new Citadel was awful, I know the original was a nightmare to navigate, but least it felt like the capital of the Milky Way. The absence of the Mako left a gaping hole in the game, like curry with no turmeric, Mass Effect with no Mako felt lacking. The new weapon system is weak and a step backwards from the original's and it's hundreds of upgrades and configurations. The side missions this time were all 15 minute affairs meaning, unlike the original's, there was never a sense of sinking your teeth into something outside of the main quest.

The structure of the game, again unlike the original's, felt incredibly linear and the fact it’s impossible farm experience/credits is, in my opinion, unforgivable. I mean it's meant to be an RPG. A role playing game. When I take the role of a character I expect to be able to take a break from the story and use my skills and abilities to make money/experience if I so choose. The Normandy has access to the whole of the Milky Way galaxy yet nowhere can you land to just explore, kill and collect. It’s silly. The game holds complete control over how many credits one can receive, how much experience they can make. Talk about limiting the player. Indeed the only thing that can be farmed is minerals but that’s almost criminally time-consuming and unbearably dull.

I don't know if EA are to blame (perhaps this was always the direction Bioware were gonna take) but, overall, the game felt extremely dumbed down and sterilised compared to the original. It felt like it was designed to appeal to a wider audience, an audience used to being spoon-fed.

[_y_]

Um, curry with no turmeric?

[sj33]

I know what you mean, althought I felt the game was better overall, it just had a much clearer focus.

The original, as much as I loved it, combined with RPG exploration and 'shooter' elements, excelling at neither. The jeep exploration sections felt like they existed purely to give the illusion of scope, usually leading to a cookie-cutter mission. It was clear that Bioware's focus was on the character development, and everything else around it felt rather tacked on.

By comparison, they knew what they wanted to do with the sequel, the whole experience felt much tighter, they focued more on the strengths (the character development) and I think it is a better game for it. Of course, an open-ended 'exploration' game doesn't necessarily have to be at the expense of narrative and character development, but it feels like they wanted to keep the focus realistic rather than bite off more than they could chew.

I agree that the Citadel was disappointing. It certainly lacked the sense of scale and importance that the original had (even if it was a bit of an illusion).

[Charlie]

Um, curry with no turmeric?

Yeah. You know. Curry without turmeric isn't curry. And Mass Effect, to me, without the Mako isn't Mass Effect. I mean the running and gunning isn't great in either game, but least the Mako broke that up a bit in the original.

[capcom_suicide]

Having completed this now, I regard it as something of a paradox. On one hand I found it considerably disappointing, on the other I'm (just about) glad I experienced it.

The game's greatest merits, without doubt, are the characters and dialogue which set new standards. The story for the most part is excellent too despite the rather silly, Hollywood-like finale. And the cut scenes and general level of design and detail in regards to the sci-fi setting are top notch.

But I definitely found more to dislike than appreciate. Clumsy, clunky controls, and bland and uninspiring level design that never once conveyed the sense of a universe going on beyond the confines of the game's boundaries left the game feeling rather hollow and lifeless.

The new Citadel was awful, I know the original was a nightmare to navigate, but least it felt like the capital of the Milky Way. The absence of the Mako left a gaping hole in the game, like curry with no turmeric, Mass Effect with no Mako felt lacking. The new weapon system is weak and a step backwards from the original's and it's hundreds of upgrades and configurations. The side missions this time were all 15 minute affairs meaning, unlike the original's, there was never a sense of sinking your teeth into something outside of the main quest.

The structure of the game, again unlike the original's, felt incredibly linear and the fact it?s impossible farm experience/credits is, in my opinion, unforgivable. I mean it's meant to be an RPG. A role playing game. When I take the role of a character I expect to be able to take a break from the story and use my skills and abilities to make money/experience if I so choose. The Normandy has access to the whole of the Milky Way galaxy yet nowhere can you land to just explore, kill and collect. It?s silly. The game holds complete control over how many credits one can receive, how much experience they can make. Talk about limiting the player. Indeed the only thing that can be farmed is minerals but that?s almost criminally time-consuming and unbearably dull.

I don't know if EA are to blame (perhaps this was always the direction Bioware were gonna take) but, overall, the game felt extremely dumbed down and sterilised compared to the original. It felt like it was designed to appeal to a wider audience, an audience used to being spoon-fed.

I'm 24 hours in now, just one crew member slot left, and moving into the main quest. The game is very well made & I am enjoying it greatly, but this is no small part down to my lack of RPG skills.

Therefore I would just like to say that I totally agree with your post, as it surprised me too how much was removed, it was just that as an RPG noob I played ME1 with automatic upgrades etc.

I can understand those who enjoyed the RPG aspect will be dissapointed with it's removal.

The best way to describe ME2 for me, would be "Halo with a better story". Playing with the DLC armour I even look like master chief!

I think they should have left the RPG aspect for folk like yourself, and then allowed it to be set to "Auto" for folk like me.

I also actually loved the mako & planet explorations, and if they had taken all the crew missions and made them the "End point" for planets, then improved the number of Moon bases over the standard from ME1, that would have been great.

As much as I am loving ME2, it does feel like it's missing something.

[rmoxon]

Having completed this now, I regard it as something of a paradox. On one hand I found it considerably disappointing, on the other I'm (just about) glad I experienced it.

The game's greatest merits, without doubt, are the characters and dialogue which set new standards. The story for the most part is excellent too despite the rather silly, Hollywood-like finale. And the cut scenes and general level of design and detail in regards to the sci-fi setting are top notch.

But I definitely found more to dislike than appreciate. Clumsy, clunky controls, and bland and uninspiring level design that never once conveyed the sense of a universe going on beyond the confines of the game's boundaries left the game feeling rather hollow and lifeless.

The new Citadel was awful, I know the original was a nightmare to navigate, but least it felt like the capital of the Milky Way. The absence of the Mako left a gaping hole in the game, like curry with no turmeric, Mass Effect with no Mako felt lacking. The new weapon system is weak and a step backwards from the original's and it's hundreds of upgrades and configurations. The side missions this time were all 15 minute affairs meaning, unlike the original's, there was never a sense of sinking your teeth into something outside of the main quest.

The structure of the game, again unlike the original's, felt incredibly linear and the fact it’s impossible farm experience/credits is, in my opinion, unforgivable. I mean it's meant to be an RPG. A role playing game. When I take the role of a character I expect to be able to take a break from the story and use my skills and abilities to make money/experience if I so choose. The Normandy has access to the whole of the Milky Way galaxy yet nowhere can you land to just explore, kill and collect. It’s silly. The game holds complete control over how many credits one can receive, how much experience they can make. Talk about limiting the player. Indeed the only thing that can be farmed is minerals but that’s almost criminally time-consuming and unbearably dull.

I don't know if EA are to blame (perhaps this was always the direction Bioware were gonna take) but, overall, the game felt extremely dumbed down and sterilised compared to the original. It felt like it was designed to appeal to a wider audience, an audience used to being spoon-fed.

While there isnt much farming and the like, you can actualy land on some planets and do secondary missions, you just have to scan about a bit to find them.

Overall its a funny one I did love the game but it certainly has faults. They have streamlined the gameplay to the extreame yet still decided to make the scanning so drawn out and boring, it dosent make much sense.

I think most people were happy to see the Mako go though, taking half an hour to drive up a hill thats about knee height was even more dull than scanning planets.

At the end of the day the developers have mostly focused on what was considered most sucsessful about the first game and expanded those elements. The shooting is more fun and the conversation system is utilised even better and more deeper than before.

I doubt most people actualy miss the slightly more rpg style bits to the first game becuase they wernt really what it was about in the first place.

[Concrete donkey]

For me Mass Effect 2 wasn't any less of an RPG than the first one and I say that having replayed the first game just before the second. The inventory system wasn't fun or good in the first game. Spending your time after every other mission trying to work out what was worth keeping from your loot, what to sell and what to turn into Oni-Gel didn't make a great gameplay experience. Pausing in fights to change into appropriate armour, switching ammo types, often from a gun you aren't using into one you are depending on what kind of foe your team was up against at the time neither enhanced the games validity as an RPG or realistic. The sequels combat menu was a far more effective way to change ammo types and it makes sense to only switch armour at the beginning of an away mission or in a save zone.

I do miss the Mako and hope the Hammerhead DLC coming soon will make for it in a small way, but that's not where the first game's strengths were. The side quests were much better done in Mass Effect 2, they all felt unique and I loved that many of them would take you to quite a few different worlds or space stations in your investigation. Only a few like the Cerberus investigations would do that in the first game.

Mass Effect 2 wasn't perfect and I have my fair share of complaints but the idea that the game had been dumbed down because it got rid of or streamlined tired old RPG conventions that didn't work that well in the first game is not one I'm inclined to subscribe to.

[Eight Rooks]

It's not something anyone should subscribe to. Weapon upgrades were pointless in the first game - you went through a linear path, got the ultimate (or as good as) in whatever you wanted and stuck with it. The inventory was a godawful mess and it was pointless fiddling with it once you'd got your equipment up to a certain point - quicker and easier to just instantly convert everything into Omnigel. None of the uninhabited worlds were remotely interesting or at all challenging, the Mako was a toy that utterly broke my immersion in the world Bioware were trying to create every time I tried it, you rapidly ended up with more money than you could ever practically spend (given there was nothing worth spending it on), the side missions were all the same few buildings over and over and a few silly little text boxes... but hey! There was more of it, right? So it must have been more intelligent and deep and rewarding and everything, you know, like a 'proper' RPG. Bleh.

I mean, I seriously don't make posts like this for ****s and giggles, much as some people probably think I do. It's just no-one defending the first game over the second has given me any arguments that amount to anything other than 'There was more stuff in the first one, so, so, they must have dumbed it down! Stands to reason!' and/or 'It was just different. It felt better. I dunno, different' and sorry, that's just not changing my impression that the only people who prefer the first game are hardcore stats- and/or PC-nerds with rosetinted spectacles on.

[capcom_suicide]

It's not something anyone should subscribe to. Weapon upgrades were pointless in the first game - you went through a linear path, got the ultimate (or as good as) in whatever you wanted and stuck with it. The inventory was a godawful mess and it was pointless fiddling with it once you'd got your equipment up to a certain point - quicker and easier to just instantly convert everything into Omnigel. None of the uninhabited worlds were remotely interesting or at all challenging, the Mako was a toy that utterly broke my immersion in the world Bioware were trying to create every time I tried it, you rapidly ended up with more money than you could ever practically spend (given there was nothing worth spending it on), the side missions were all the same few buildings over and over and a few silly little text boxes... but hey! There was more of it, right? So it must have been more intelligent and deep and rewarding and everything, you know, like a 'proper' RPG. Bleh.

I mean, I seriously don't make posts like this for ****s and giggles, much as some people probably think I do. It's just no-one defending the first game over the second has given me any arguments that amount to anything other than 'There was more stuff in the first one, so, so, they must have dumbed it down! Stands to reason!' and/or 'It was just different. It felt better. I dunno, different' and sorry, that's just not changing my impression that the only people who prefer the first game are hardcore stats- and/or PC-nerds with rosetinted spectacles on.

There is another reason, people like me are ignorant of RPG's and just noticed a lot of that stuff was removed. (Upgrades, Customisations & level grinding) I played the first one on "Automatic" so for me the second one delivers exactly what I was looking for. I had assumed RPG fans would be disapointed and they had streamlined this part. It did not occur to me that this was a **bad** RPG implementation. It's always dangerous commenting on stuff you don't fully understand, so I stand corrected.

I still missed the Mako though!

[sj33]

The Mako sections could be implemented really well, there's no reason why they all have to have a generic cookie-cutter structure. But I'm glad they left them out this time, if only so they could focus on the series' strengths. If it's not going to be implemented properly, best not do it at all, in my opinion.