Japan is no longer the daddy...

[Ady]

Precisely. In the meantime western character design tends to concentrate on realism. The result is usually a realistic looking character with no soul.

[Lebowski]

Same with anime

In anime they convey emotions and situations that are rarely handled in western film let alone animation. Recently watched Azumanga Daioh, it sums up everything I love about Japanese design (and it's so damn FUNNY!)

and whats the best we can come up with lara bloody croft and her pointy boobys

[Corrupt Rose]

I'll go with you on the subject of Anime when it comes to Characterisation, but I simply can't agree on the subject of games. The only character I've ever felt was even remotely alive ever appeared on the screen as anything but text... Heh.

On the other hand, this may very well be a me thing anyway, since I'm still extremely into pen and paper roleplaying (generally running it), and I'm so stringent about the level of effort placed into a character's backstory, I have a harder than average time recruting players. Especially for my 'Little Fears' games.

Heh.

But as I've said, Video Game characters don't do anything for me. Not compared to the characters in my RP sessions, or those found in books and films. You've then got to ask, though, whether it's fair to compare video game characters (from a format still very much in it's infacy) to those found in more established mediums.

I'm a big believer in the fact that all Video Games need are time, now.



@))-------------
The Corrupt Rose

[Ady]

What western gaming needs in terms of aesthetic design values is influence from other areas as well as breaking free from the constraints of publishers.

I work as an IT technician at a college and whilst on my travels a few weeks ago, I took a quick break(!) to peruse the art exhibitions from students in the art block. I'm a bit of an artist myself and I was very imrpessed by some of the things the students were doing, it also got me thinking about game world and character design.

Those exhibits were imaginative which proves the west is not without creative ideas and talent (some seem to think that westerners are innately inferior to the Japanese in any aspect of gaming) - which suggests that perhaps the wrong people are designing game characters and worlds.

Now I'm not suggesting devcos sack their graphic designers and replace them with art students, but it'd be interesting to see what someone with that background could bring to the table.

Incidentally, most of the exhibits (amd certainly the best ones) were by female students.

[Saurian]

A friend of mine was saying the same thing - he's a fantastic artist! He was going on about how there is LOADS of talent here in the UK for all kinds of character design and artistic style but the artists dont get a look in. Wonder why this is?

[Brats]

Western games can easily rival Japanese games for character design at times. Consider the Lucasarts graphic adventures for a start. Characters in games such as Vice City are also fantastic when viewed as the parody they were intended to be.

I do agree with Viapon that generally Japanese games have better quality control when it comes to presentation. The Japanese seem content to push new areas in style whereas the West seems to push more in areas of content.

Only Japan could have developed something like Rez or Viewtiful Joe, but only the West could have completely rennovated the lagging RPG genre with Planescape Torment and Neverwinter Nights et al or produced a astoundingly open game such as GTA3.

Sensible gamers get the best of both worlds. Viv la Difference!

[Corrupt Rose]

Only Japan could have developed something like Rez

I'll half agree with that. It did have it's translation issues, I guess. Threatening to cause "Synthesesia", indeed. Like I want one of the most horrifically bizarre mental disorders out there.



@))-------------
The Corrupt Rose

[Kerraig UK]

I used to pretty much only play Jap games. From Samurai Shodown to Gynoug, I was never interested in US releases.

it's totally the other way round for me now though. I still believe that Jap games have better presentation and characters, but there is a lack of depth there for me beyond the control system, which usually gets the most care and attention.

Games like Halo, Hitman 2, Burnout 2, Perfect Dark, Neverwinter nights, colin Mccrae rally etc have much more to offer me than whats coming out of Japan. Even treasure who I have worshipped my entire gaming life constantly dissapoint me now. I hated Freak-out, Wario World and Ikaruga.

There are exceptions. Viewtiful Joe, Ikaruga, cool cool toon, Gitaroo man, rez. But hyped Jap games such as Psyvariar and P.N.0.3 just leave me cold.

[acidforblood]

What I love most about Japanese design is the importance of the character. It seems the character and his/her abilities are created and then the gameworld is like a playground for them to exploit these abilities, then it's up to the player to learn how to exploit the abilities and tools given to them. This seems to be the design concept for most Japanese games

No doubt this is true in many cases but the game that really turned me away from 'quirky' Japanese titles was Goemon. The character design seems so utterly alien and so utterly annoying. Many Japanese RPG'S look the same and whilst it's only cosmetic it's not my cup of tea. My favourite Japanese character is probably one of the few that seems to have western influences, Samus Aran.

[Ish]

My personal take on this is that both western and eastern developers have a lot to offer. I'm not sure any geographical area has more to offer than the other.

Without Japanese developers I wouldn't be playing Monkey Ball. Without Western developers I wouldn't be playing Halo. There's plenty of good games come from all over the place....

I do agree though that the Japanese really buff there games up well. There's rarely a pixel out of place .

[Kirby]

My personal take on this is that both western and eastern developers have a lot to offer. I'm not sure any geographical area has more to offer than the other.

Without Japanese developers I wouldn't be playing Monkey Ball. Without Western developers I wouldn't be playing Halo. There's plenty of good games come from all over the place....

I do agree though that the Japanese really buff there games up well. There's rarely a pixel out of place .

I totally agree with everything above.

[Molloy]

I think the quality varies all over the place in both the east and the west. The thing is most of the dull games over there don't get ported.

I think Western developers tend to be more ambitious. Stuff like Vice City and Black & White is far more innovative than anything we've got from Nintendo or Konami recently.

But the Japanese are wonderfully good at isolating a games fun factor and getting rid of anything that might distract from that. They have an intrinsic sense of what to leave out of the final game, which is an important skill.

But it's silly to generalise like this. The likes of Unity could as easily come from Sega as Llamasoft. Hopefully when the cost of promoting epic games like this gets too high we'll see more small, independant projects securing publishing deals and take more creative risks.

[Lebowski]

Now I'm not suggesting devcos sack their graphic designers and replace them with art students, but it'd be interesting to see what someone with that background could bring to the table.

a graphic designer wouldent normaly be responsable for the artwork in my experience, while im not saying graphic designers dont go into theses positions if they do it is more because of there illistration skills than qualifications as it is normay dependant on your skills as an artists.

most uk companies would have a head artist responsable for creating concepts for games, from my experience these peoples qualifications ranged from fine artists to sculpters, and here is the problem one person is responsable for this games look and feel and this direction is handed out to all the artists under him (for every game the company does), they may be better artists with better ideas working under him but this dosent matter as its the lead artist that would be resposable for inital concepts and designs.

[Cacophanus]

Im thinking a Microsoft sponsored wad of cash induced those comments to sell the American software they are trying to shift in Japan

Really? Then why write it in a foreign publication written entirely in English? Moreover getting a copy of EDGE here is equatable to finding an eight legged kung-fu chicken (not easy in other words). Anyway, considering that Nagoshi can't speak/write English I imagine his translator might have taken a few convenient liberties?

Only Japan could have developed something like Rez

Considering Mizuguchi was "inspired" by Wassily Kandinsky I would be inclined to say that Rez is very much a Russian game, going from your correlation at least.

[soapbox]

Rez was and is a derivative and simplistic game with a smattering of high-brow artistic influences. Gamers with a brain should realise this, and they also should know better than to listen to a bunch of Nathan Barley-esque game journalists who espouse vapid nonsense.

[/soapbox]

ft:

A friend of mine was saying the same thing - he's a fantastic artist! He was going on about how there is LOADS of talent here in the UK for all kinds of character design and artistic style but the artists dont get a look in. Wonder why this is?

Japan is based around a very aesthetic culture. Britain is not.

[saif]

Walking around Japan, you can see loads of different styles of design and there is loads of character in little things. The difference is acceptance. The small characters are universally popular - not just little girls etc. This has meant a greater exploration of emotionalising the characters.

There is tons of graphic artist skills in the UK. If you look at the general level of simplke things like logos and marketing, it is at a relatively high level and (sometimes) sophistication. If it is for a domestic market. Its when we try to internationalise that we get our design ****ed. In chase of the almighty dollar usually.