Japan is no longer the daddy...

[Brats]

Considering Mizuguchi was "inspired" by Wassily Kandinsky I would be inclined to say that Rez is very much a Russian game, going from your correlation at least.

The origin of the inspiration is academic, I was merely stating that Japanese dev cos can take an established game idea and implement it with a style that has not been seen previously in videogames (although such styles are often influenced from other culture) whereas generally the West do not. See also JSR, Wind Waker, Vib Ribbon, Out Run, etc.

Rez was and is a derivative and simplistic game with a smattering of high-brow artistic influences. Gamers with a brain should realise this, and they also should know better than to listen to a bunch of Nathan Barley-esque game journalists who espouse vapid nonsense.

I completely agree with the first sentence. It still doesn’t stop Rez from being a great piece of entertainment imo (although it does exist up its own arse). Most games are derivative and simplistic without any high-brow artistic influences, so Rez has an advantage over most software straight away.

[Concept]

The thing which irks me about Rez is that it's lofty high-brow aesthetic ambitions place it as a better game than Panzer Dragoon Orta for many among the "games are art!" brigade.

But I'm not going to open that can of worms again, so I'll leave that line of thought there...

On another note:

Why the need for us be so desperate to champion the scene to the intellectual crowd for social crediability? Rather than promote games which are seeking to become something other than a game, shouldn't we promote those who immerse themselves more in what they essentially are?

[Ady]

Rez is a damn fine and highly enjoyable game. End of.

In terms of western styling and such, Psygnosis made a wise choice in using The Designers Republic for its Wipeout games.

[Concept]

Didn't say it wasn't. But it's not as good as many make out.

The synergy and mixture of both sound and visuals isn't anywhere near as sophisticated as many make out for a start.

Neither is it particularly challenging.

[Brats]

In many ways Rez was a disappointment. The interaction between the player and the music was completely over-hyped, the way the visuals change from level to level jars and essentially it is little more than Space Harrier with pretty graphics and a dance music score.

But once you get over that, you can have immense fun from whumping up the volume and getting seriously hooked on the game. It has very high pretensions and in most instances it fails to reach it’s lofty aspersions, but it still remains a classic of simple gameplay and stunning aesthetics.

Personally I prefer it to PDO, which had lofty ambitions from a gameplay perspective, but remains flawed in many ways imo with dull boss battles and a lack of pacing.

[Mayhem]

In many ways Rez was a disappointment. The interaction between the player and the music was completely over-hyped, the way the visuals change from level to level jars and essentially it is little more than Space Harrier with pretty graphics and a dance music score.

Hopefully "Unity" might fill that gap then. It's all early stages so far, but from some bits I got to see over the weekend it's probably going to be quite left field (as usual for Minter) and quite bizarre. Oh and quite fluffy with a kickass (if you like that sort of music, can't say any more because it hasn't been officially announced) soundtrack...

[womblingfree]

Well every so often other countries throw up a superlative title. But compared to the consistent quality of Japanese software it can't be beaten, certainly not for me anyway.

If you love RPG's, beat em ups, shmups, survival horrors, rythm action games blah, blah, blah, then I wish you luck foraging through the non-Japanese offerings.

If you like FPS's and God games then maybe you'll survive.

I always said that the Japanese market could easily (and generally does) survive with the complete absence of western games. Can you imagine the western console market existing without Japanese software?

Rez was and is a derivative and simplistic game with a smattering of high-brow artistic influences. Gamers with a brain should realise this, and they also should know better than to listen to a bunch of Nathan Barley-esque game journalists who espouse vapid nonsense.

[2097]

i havent seen anything change in the balance of power between east and west.. all thats happening is a slight shifting between companies.. like in europe we've lost bullfrog, gremlin, psygnosis, rage etc.. but others have upped their game like empire, sci, criterion, jester etc.. in japan sega, namco and capcom have lost market share.. but koei, konami and square enix have gained... or like take2, activision and ea booming in america while acclaim, 3DO and midway fizzle out...

as for the actual games its not really a fair comparison, we tend to only see and get the better/more westernised japanese titles over here..

western games like wipeout, project eden, broken sword, beneath a steel sky, sly racoon, ratchet & clank, firebugs, frequency, syndicate wars, in cold blood, zeus, paroah, the longest journey, syberia, runaway and grim fandango easily hold a flame to their eastern counterparts ..

[Ish]

Well every so often other countries throw up a superlative title. But compared to the consistent quality of Japanese software it can't be beaten, certainly not for me anyway.

You see I think this percieved 'consistent quality' Is just that a perception. And a fallacy.

We (even us merry band of importers) only really see the cream of the crop. The very best titles. After all - why bother hunting down the dross and crossing the language barrier to deal with the dross. It ain't gonna happen. To a large extent much of the Western dross doesn't even get reported on in the West - wonder into any branch of Game and scan the shelves. There's tonnes of stuff there that hardly even gets a sentence in a gaming magazine...

[Cacophanus]

The origin of the inspiration is academic, I was merely stating that Japanese dev cos can take an established game idea and implement it with a style that has not been seen previously in videogames (although such styles are often influenced from other culture) whereas generally the West do not. See also JSR, Wind Waker, Vib Ribbon, Out Run, etc.

Style is by no means a game though, just an aesthetic precedent. Rez set the standard of visual style pretty high, but the game isn't really there to back it up. It's fun and entertaining, to be sure, but it is awfully vapid.

I completely agree with the first sentence. It still doesn?t stop Rez from being a great piece of entertainment imo (although it does exist up its own arse). Most games are derivative and simplistic without any high-brow artistic influences, so Rez has an advantage over most software straight away.

A superficial advantage.

Personally I prefer it to PDO, which had lofty ambitions from a gameplay perspective, but remains flawed in many ways imo with dull boss battles and a lack of pacing.

We (even us merry band of importers) only really see the cream of the crop. The very best titles. After all - why bother hunting down the dross and crossing the language barrier to deal with the dross. It ain't gonna happen. To a large extent much of the Western dross doesn't even get reported on in the West - wonder into any branch of Game and scan the shelves. There's tonnes of stuff there that hardly even gets a sentence in a gaming magazine...

Very bloody true.

[Brats]

Style is by no means a game though, just an aesthetic precedent. Rez set the standard of visual style pretty high, but the game isn't really there to back it up. It's fun and entertaining, to be sure, but it is awfully vapid.

Of course, but take an tried and tested gameplay idea and wrap it up in a new style and you can inject some interest back into a flagging genre. The point I was trying to make is that this is something the Japanese do more than the West, hence my statement that Rez could only have come from the Japanese. Both our personal thoughts on the merits of Rez as a game are incidental.

We (even us merry band of importers) only really see the cream of the crop. The very best titles. After all - why bother hunting down the dross and crossing the language barrier to deal with the dross. It ain't gonna happen. To a large extent much of the Western dross doesn't even get reported on in the West - wonder into any branch of Game and scan the shelves. There's tonnes of stuff there that hardly even gets a sentence in a gaming magazine...

Very bloody true.

I totally agree. What's surprising is how often people in arguments like this compare average Western software with the best from Japan. Thus we get statements like "Look at all the **** EA churn out compared to the Japanese stuff like Viewtiful Joe and Wind Waker". Suddenly people seem to forget that the West developed Halo, Metroid Prime, Moto GP, Burnout, Neverwinter Nights, Deus Ex, etc, etc....

[Cacophanus]

Of course, but take an tried and tested gameplay idea and wrap it up in a new style and you can inject some interest back into a flagging genre. The point I was trying to make is that this is something the Japanese do more than the West, hence my statement that Rez could only have come from the Japanese. Both our personal thoughts on the merits of Rez as a game are incidental.

Refining aestheticism is very much a Japanese cultural trait, but it can sometimes run astray. To the extent that some games look fantastic but are pretty bland contextually. Rez is a good example of this. Moreover if people cease to dicuss the merits of a game on a gaming forum then really what's the point? Games are games, they are not (or should not be at least) merely "visual feasts" or "experiences".

[Brats]

Refining aestheticism is very much a Japanese cultural trait

I know, which is why I made the original point.

but it can sometimes run astray. To the extent that some games look fantastic but are pretty bland contextually. Rez is a good example of this.

I never said it was always succesful. Although our opinions on Rez's merits are similar, I clearly gain more enjoyment from the title than yourself, which is fair dos.

Where I think Rez does excel outside of its aesthetics is in its pacing, which is fantastic for every one of the levels. Pacing is a part of games that often goes ignored and it's where I feel PDO is let down.

Moreover if people cease to dicuss the merits of a game on a gaming forum then really what's the point?

I never implied that people shouldn't discuss the merits of games, merely that the merits of any particular title have nothing to do with the topic at hand, namely the differences between Western and Japanese ethos on game design.

Games are games, they are not (or should not be at least) merely "visual feasts" or "experiences".

I agree. To me Rez is a game, nothing more and nothing less. But the aesthetics of Rez heightens my enjoyment of the game.

[Ady]

If you love RPG's, beat em ups, shmups, survival horrors, rythm action games blah, blah, blah, then I wish you luck foraging through the non-Japanese offerings.

Of course all those genres have a lot to offer but there is still a lot of conservatism there. RPGs for instance have barely changed sinced the NES (and there is so much potential, too).

[Cacophanus]

I never said it was always succesful. Although our opinions on Rez's merits are similar, I clearly gain more enjoyment from the title than yourself, which is fair dos.

I enjoy Rez, but it's pretty much the "snack food" of gaming. Not much substance.

Where I think Rez does excel outside of its aesthetics is in its pacing, which is fantastic for every one of the levels. Pacing is a part of games that often goes ignored and it's where I feel PDO is let down.

Yes, but for Orta's lack of pacing there was considerably more gameplay depth available. I go back to Orta more than I do to Rez (this also has a lot to do with the fact that I adore the Panzer Dragoon world setting and narrative).

I never implied that people shouldn't discuss the merits of games, merely that the merits of any particular title have nothing to do with the topic at hand, namely the differences between Western and Japanese ethos on game design.

...I think I did a column on this...

Japanese developers mimic their own societal traits, in that their games follow a very strict path. Western games, on the other hand, are generally more open to the player. The aesthetically stylised nature of Japanese design is also a bonus, but a purely superficial one.

I agree. To me Rez is a game, nothing more and nothing less. But the aesthetics of Rez heightens my enjoyment of the game.

Surely the game intricacy should heighten enjoyment, after all we are here to play games?