Nintendo Switch: Thread 09

[Dogg Thang]

Okay but you’re moving from Winback to MK64 in order to justify a point that was probably just thrown out in frustration. As already illustrated, there are many costs attached to these things even in the event of a free license (which MK64 would generally be, one would imagine although even then couldn’t be taken as a given unless you know what was in all the contracts at the time of production). And most won’t actually be free. They require negotiation, due diligence on contracts, checking rights, making sure the files work and so on and so on even before you get into the terms of the license itself (which in some other media industries would be either a flat cost up front or a flat cost plus shares or one of a whole host of ways that cost money).

I feel like your point was really just voicing frustration.

[Asura]

I feel like your point was really just voicing frustration.

I absolutely was. However, I stand by this:

the crux of this - that (1) the costs to Nintendo for this are really quite small compared to, for example, developing another significant game, (2) the amount they could earn off the thousands of subscribers totally dwarfs those costs (to the degree of it being pennies a user) and (3) that means that it should really be pretty much perfect, or they're doing a bad job?

I genuinely believe that for something like WinBack, while there are costs involved, they're so low compared to an even modest prediction of revenue (and how Nintendo can drive that bargain - "this or zero, you choose") - that they're just not appreciable. I strongly believe if Koei had dug their heels in, WinBack just wouldn't be on the service. It's not like anyone's queuing around the block to play WinBack.

From my perspective, I think you guys are just getting hung up on the fine detail but not the big picture.

EDIT: I want to add, also, that I accept frustration definitely plays a role, here. I was really excited when I heard there were going to be N64 games on the online service. I just want things to live up to quite reasonable expectations, and it's a real shame when they don't.

[Tobal]

it's pretty 'fking crap that that old version of project64 with outdated 2005 plugins is faster and more accurate than this dog crap nintendo put out, they should be ashamed.

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[Dogg Thang]

EDIT: I want to add, also, that I accept frustration definitely plays a role, here. I was really excited when I heard there were going to be N64 games on the online service. I just want things to live up to quite reasonable expectations, and it's a real shame when they don't.

And this really is the main point and it’s absolutely valid and right. I reckon if you gave the other points some consideration you would see the contradictions in what you’ve written and you would also see that they are not remotely relevant. Whether it cost Nintendo a little or a lot to license the games, if they put out a service like this the quality should be good. Anything else is exactly as you say - getting caught up in the details.

[fishbowlhead]

The only way to buy Nintendo is physical. They have absolutely no interest in sorting any of this out as it doesn’t generate the profits that their usual business model does.

Why have a unified account with your entire purchase history ready to download when you can just resell it all over again virtual every generation.

I don’t believe they will ever adopt an account system like MS have built up, or even Sonys.

[Asura]

It comes down, sometimes, to the difficulty you perceive in doing something.

It's like when a small indie makes an MMORPG; you can forgive a lot of minor faults if it has something good, something fun, something new, because you know they've done it on a shoestring with blood, sweat and tears. But if a main studio at Activision makes an MMORPG then it isn't unreasonable to hold the game to more exacting standard. And if you have a reasonable belief that said studio is selling a game at a very large markup, then you're probably going to be even more judgemental, when they could be making a bit less profit and making a quality product. I feel this is a similar situation, at least for me.

Maybe it's a naive, overly-transactional way of looking at something, but it's just the perspective from which I view a service like this.

[Neon Ignition]

But if Nintendo does a good job of putting roms on the Switch Online Service then how will it convince 10m+ people to pay £50 for The Legend of Zelda 3D Collection?

[wakka]

For Nintendo, getting an N64 emulator working properly and licensing some ROMs for it is table stakes to be honest. It's bread and butter stuff they should just get right.

Not suggesting we start a pitchfork wielding mob about it, but I see where Asura is coming from on this. It's a bit of a piss take they haven't got it nailed on from day 1.

[importaku]

I'm more surprised that people honestly thought they would get it right, N64 is a weird system. It doesn't matter how much modding of a real machine or tinkering with an emulator the games look dire it's just the way they are the only thing that tends to survive is the 2D stuff which on N64 is barely anything.

For the add on price they are asking it's laughably bad, probably stings more for the people that were looking forward to revisiting the games but i equate them to.........

N64 back in the day VS N64 in 2021

[Dogg Thang]

Yeah, I think even aside from any issues with this particular service (which I wouldn’t excuse), I’d probably feel similar for N64 games. They often need a remaster for me to consider them looking in any way decent. The 3DS Zeldas for example were wonderful. The recent Turok releases, even though I don’t rate them highly as games, I felt did it well in that they looked kind of like my memory tells me they did but in reality the new releases look and run much better. Even the Mario64 version on All Stars collection seems a little ropey looking after all these years and I think even that might have had a bit of work done.

[importaku]

Yeah it's a pile of things that together really hamper the experience. Low poly models plus fog everywhere to mask the poor draw distance add in blurry as hell textures & low framerate it's not something i have any desire to go back to. even doing a fancy hdmi mod or a deblur mod doesn't help much neither does whacking it through a scaler & adding scanlines, they just don't look pleasing. It's just a system unfortunate enough to be at a technology point where it's aged the worst, even the PS1 manages to look way better in 2021 than the N64.

I just enjoy the memory of what i played in the past and leave it at that, i can't bring myself to drag it out of the kitchen cupboard to revisit.

[Asura]

Yeah, I think even aside from any issues with this particular service (which I wouldn’t excuse), I’d probably feel similar for N64 games. They often need a remaster for me to consider them looking in any way decent. The 3DS Zeldas for example were wonderful. The recent Turok releases, even though I don’t rate them highly as games, I felt did it well in that they looked kind of like my memory tells me they did but in reality the new releases look and run much better. Even the Mario64 version on All Stars collection seems a little ropey looking after all these years and I think even that might have had a bit of work done.

I was about to say that Mario 64 has aged quite well; I mean, yes, it has problems but it still feels quite "solid", which was one of its selling points back in the day.

It's also that the N64 pioneered something utterly pedestrian, now - draw distance. Being able to see the end of the level from the start in Mario 64 was kinda mindblowing back then; that seems very quaint these days.

But you're totally right, as are others here - the N64 definitely works better in the memory. Like, I remember Pilotwings 64 looking amazing; it really, really doesn't today. But I certainly still have a nostalgic connection to them.

I would love Nintendo to do official remasters of these; like just fixing the FPS dips, higher-res, inject new textures. WaveRace64 springs to mind here.

[Dogg Thang]

Oh it has! I won’t disagree. One of the things with Mario64 is that it worked well within the limits of the system. And the other thing with M64 is that it controls beautifully even after all these years (albeit with some camera issues in places). I just mean that, for me, it was always a pinnacle of the system but looks a little worse each time I play it.

[Asura]

Oh it has! I won’t disagree. One of the things with Mario64 is that it worked well within the limits of the system. And the other thing with M64 is that it controls beautifully even after all these years (albeit with some camera issues in places). I just mean that, for me, it was always a pinnacle of the system but looks a little worse each time I play it.

Agreed. I think, also, that we hold the platform to the standard of those games - so, yeah, we had Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, 1080 Snowboarding...

... but also the likes of Vigilante 8, or Armorines.

[importaku]

When that mario 3D collection came out i have to admit i literally gave mario 64 a play till i got the first few stars then turned it off, really couldn't be arsed to go through it all again i have played it to death so many times over the years both on the original & the rumble version then again on the DS (which in my opinion is the best version thanks to those new levels) that i can't muster the energy to do the whole thing again. Mario sunshine was similar however i played a bit more of that, it's only galaxy that got a huge amount of playtime.

If it had been me i would have removed 64 and added the 2nd galaxy game but i can fully understand why they put 64 on, despite it aging roughly as the years go on. Back in the day it was literally jawdropping to play.