LCD/Plasma/CRT/DLP - questions

[Angry the Clown]

So is there definitely no way to store individual calibration settings for each input on the PX60 then Andrew?

[Rossco]

I had really wanted to do that too, but I figured I would rather have much better television, film, and game performance than have the ability to use it as a large monitor at the expense of image quality.

I probably use my PC more than anything else though and since I need it for uni doing computer animation, I constantly use 2 screens at once, and that isnt even enough at times for me so going back to just a 19" would kill me, I just couldnt do it. I do watch DVD's alot and have Sky + but also play my 360 alot so it evens out between HD and SD but I really couldnt be without an HD set now. And have no space for both.

Just need to make sure my next purchase is a really good HD LCD that does well with SD content too. I'm more than happy with my LG tv but know it could look better with SD, something which all the new Sony's etc do so I may look into that near the end of the year.

[Lyris]

Looking further back, there were people who bought HDTVs towards the begining of last year, or even earlier than that, with the intention of using them for HDTV broadcasts and HD-DVD / BluRay. Many of these people are now finding out that they can't even use their televisions for those purposes, or at least not at their best, as they don't have HDCP or digital connections.

Bought a Sony KLV-26HG2 LCD WEGA in late 2004 with Blu-Ray in mind.

Well, Blu-Ray so far has turned out to be a stinker so I've gone with HD-DVD. And I actually CAN watch HD-DVDs on it (for now) - of course I no longer have a need for it because I upgraded quicker than I imagined I would

[H-Man]

So is there definitely no way to store individual calibration settings for each input on the PX60 then Andrew?

I couldn't find a way of doing this on my PX60, and probably spent more time fiddling with settings than watching it


It seems to be very hard finding a decent CRT these days. The better ones aren't being made any more and can only be found second hand, if you're lucky. The one that is HD Ready seems to have all sorts of problems. argh!

[Lyris]

Why in the hell do companies like Sony not just introduce their XBR Trinitrons to Europe?

They're out in the US...

[andrewfee]

So is there definitely no way to store individual calibration settings for each input on the PX60 then Andrew?

Not that I could find unfortunately. However, I've got component on the "normal" preset, and calibrated it using the Xbox 360 - and all my other consoles (PS2, Gamecube, Xbox) look fantastic using that.

I've got my PVR calibrated using the "cinema" preset and I just had to turn contrast down a notch, and brightness up a couple of my DVD player (via HDMI) to get that looking perfect, so for me, it's not much of an issue. I'm really disappointed that they've done that though, as my old Panasonic CRT had three settings per input, but luckily it doesn't seem to be a problem. The only other hardware I can see myself getting for a long time is Wii and PS3, and I'm sure they'll be fine too. (Wii will likely have a very similar output to the cube, and I'm not overly concerned about the PS3)

I probably use my PC more than anything else though and since I need it for uni doing computer animation, I constantly use 2 screens at once, and that isnt even enough at times for me so going back to just a 19" would kill me, I just couldnt do it. I do watch DVD's alot and have Sky + but also play my 360 alot so it evens out between HD and SD but I really couldnt be without an HD set now. And have no space for both.

Just need to make sure my next purchase is a really good HD LCD that does well with SD content too. I'm more than happy with my LG tv but know it could look better with SD, something which all the new Sony's etc do so I may look into that near the end of the year.

Fair enough, but wouldn't a 19" LCD, while being smaller, offer you a lot more room to work with? Usually an LCD monitor will be higher resolution.

While the BRAVIAs are really good with SD for an LCD, it's a massive difference.

Why in the hell do companies like Sony not just introduce their XBR Trinitrons to Europe?

They're out in the US...

Europe has the quickest adoption rate for flat panels in the world right now, if I remember correctly, and most people here want to get rid of "that big box" from their rooms, so it makes sense, even if it's not any good for the enthusiast on a budget.

[krispyk]

Andrew,

How do you get into the Service Menu on the plasma?

[andrewfee]

Same way as my old CRT - put it on analogue 99, sound settings on music, bass max, treble min, hold down the index key on the remote and hit the volume down button on the front of the TV.

Red/Green move left/right through the options, Yellow/Blue adjust up/down. I assume ok saves, not tried it yet.

When you get to the last option, hitting hold will take you into the second service menu, last option there is the hours count. (shame they don't just have an hours counter in the regular menus on TVs to be honest)

[andrewfee]

There ****ing had to be something, didn't there? I don't know how I managed to miss it, but the TV is doing some sort of noise reduction with 480i and 576i over RGB or Component (and probably other connections too) but not HDMI.

I guess I just figured it was a slight response issue with Plasmas compared to CRTs, but I just happened to see something that made it blatantly obvious today - was a close-up of someone's face, and as they nodded, their skin blurred, and their facial features "dragged" behind the outline of their face, if that makes any sense. This is with the noise reduction setting disabled of course.

I'm so angry I could put my fist through it right now - why even have a ****ing noise reduction option if you're just going to force it anyway?

I've verified that it's the TV causing it by hooking up my PVR to the 14" CRT in the kitchen (ancient Sony one that does nothing to the picture via RGB) and playing back the recording via HDMI from my Powerbook.

When checking this, I also tested out the YUV output from my PVR, and it seems that the Panasonic doesn't support this properly - gives it a huge red push, just like my cheap Sony LCD does. (the BRAVIA handles it fine though)

I can't believe that this is another bloody television having to go back. I'm so sick of this now. Now it's looking like my only other option is a plasma panel, and I'm torn about what to do.

For a start, it's going to be at least twice the price of this. Now, price normally wouldn't be a huge issue, but when it's basically going to be the exact same thing minus the processing, I don't see why that should be the case. That's not all though - the ED one is only available at 42" for the panels, meaning that it's too big. (I can just see SDE if I sit close to the 37" and at 42" it's definitely going to be noticeable)

There are some plasma faults that I mentioned and were tolerable, but that's when it's an £870 display, not a £1500+ one.


Why do we not have a emoticon on this board?

[Roost]

Christ...on....a...bike.

[andrewfee]

Christ...on....a...bike.

It's still better than most displays out there (imo) and it certainly seems that this noise reduction is somehow adaptive, rather than being applied to everything.

Been looking into panels more, and it looks like the 8 series 42" is only 4cm wider than this TV is, so it'd definitely fit if the 9 series one is no bigger.


I think I might as well just go for one of them now, as I've exhausted every other option out there. I'll probably end up getting a scaler at some point too.

Now I just have to decide to go for HD or ED. While I know the ED one will look great, I'm concerned about pixel size / SDE. I know that won't be an issue with the HD one, but don't know how the image will look, especially with only 1024x768. (iirc)

It doesn't seem to be an issue with the panel, but rather the processing behind it. (I'd have been happy if it didn't have this force NR - although the deinterlacing could be better)

I tried taking a video of this effect to show it off, but it doesn't really show up. Not that it isn't obvious, just isn't easy to capture properly.

[Lyris]

Sounds to me like the display is doing some sort of Temporal Noise Reduction to try and ease the deinterlacing process. Does it appear on anything else?

[andrewfee]

Sounds to me like the display is doing some sort of Temporal Noise Reduction to try and ease the deinterlacing process. Does it appear on anything else?

Left the football on to see how resistant it'd be to image retention (and I can't see anything) and it was stupidly obvious with the grass. Looked bloody awful, just became a big blurry mess. Worse than I've seen on LCDs.

Also showed up the deinterlacing - certainly nowhere near as good as the BRAVIA was.

[H-Man]

You're giving me flashbacks to a month ago, andrewfee. I had my px60 and a tiny 14" crt hooked up next to each other and was comparing various dvds and games on the 360. It was this that finally sealed the deal, and back the plasma went.

It was a good tv, but for ?1500 it should, imo, be bloody amazing - a window into whatever source it's being fed - and not suffer from any issues with motion and green tinge/flashes. For what I watch most of the time, my old crt was better.

I've just ordered a second hand Toshiba 32ZP46 crt to replace it - fingers crossed.

[Baseley09]

I've just ordered a second hand Toshiba 32ZP46 crt to replace it - fingers crossed.

Rad pls keep us updated ive been considering a Tosh in this range.