LCD/Plasma/CRT/DLP - questions

[andrewfee]

You're giving me flashbacks to a month ago, andrewfee. I had my px60 and a tiny 14" crt hooked up next to each other and was comparing various dvds and games on the 360. It was this that finally sealed the deal, and back the plasma went.

It was a good tv, but for ?1500 it should, imo, be bloody amazing - a window into whatever source it's being fed - and not suffer from any issues with motion and green tinge/flashes. For what I watch most of the time, my old crt was better.

I've just ordered a second hand Toshiba 32ZP46 crt to replace it - fingers crossed.

The green tinge/flashes have pretty much disappeared completely now with film/video content, although it was still fairly obvious when trying out the Prey demo yesterday. (games seem to have much higher overall contrast)


I was looking into one of those CRTs ages ago, but they had been discontinued by the time I was looking to order. I've read that they're particularly bad for geometry / convergence, even for CRTs though, and personally, those things annoy me a hell of a lot more.

Overall, I'm still happy with plasmas, but it's the software driving the PD60 that spoils it. Apparently the panels don't do anything unless you tell them to, so they shouldn't suffer from this. If I go for a panel, it'll have to be 42". (the 37" is only available in HD, but more importantly, only has two expansion slots, not three)


Because of this size, I'm pretty sure I should be going for HD at this distance - I can just about make out some of the dithering on my 37" from where I sit, so it would be far too obvious on the 42" ED panel.

I'm concerned about how Freeview will look in comparison to the ED plasma though. Depending on how much it costs, I could go for a Lumagen VisionHDQ scaler as well (although I would prefer to wait for Radiance) but while I'm sure a scaler will do a great job, I still don't know whether it'll actually look as good / better than a native ED display. (any thoughts on that gIzzE?)

[Hodge]

Do you mind me asking where your buying all these TV`s from Andrew? Looking for a decent site to order from with a good a returns policy in case I get any dead pixels on the next LCD screen I`m gonna purchase soon?

[H-Man]

You can return any television you order online within 7 days - no questions asked.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/Business/Legal/DSR/distance+selling+regs+cancellation+periods.htm

The last set I returned was with Empire Direct, and they were great about it.

I was looking into one of those CRTs ages ago, but they had been discontinued by the time I was looking to order. I've read that they're particularly bad for geometry / convergence, even for CRTs though, and personally, those things annoy me a hell of a lot more.

I'm was a little apprehensive about this too, but in the end was swayed by many positive reviews and think it's worth the risk. If it turns out to be a duffer it can always be sent back.

The one i've seen in the flesh had great picture quality (better than I could have hoped to get on the px60 with dvds and SD) and the geometry seemed spot on. These also allow you to toggle between 50 and 100hz, which is a must.

The green tinge/flashes have pretty much disappeared completely now with film/video content, although it was still fairly obvious when trying out the Prey demo yesterday. (games seem to have much higher overall contrast)

Agreed. I wouldn't consider these flashes to be a problem with movies/SD (although some - Sin City - were far worse than others), it's with games that they pop frequently, and these do become annoying. Games also looked considerably less detailed/vibrant at 720p than on an lcd. There really wasn't much between a px60 @ 720p and a good crt at 480p.

[andrewfee]

Do you mind me asking where your buying all these TV`s from Andrew? Looking for a decent site to order from with a good a returns policy in case I get any dead pixels on the next LCD screen I`m gonna purchase soon?

The Samsung LE32R41BX was from EmpireDirect - the only reason I got that one refunded was because it was faulty and in repair for a stupid amount of time.

Philips 37PF9830 - Amazon.co.uk; had no problems returning it to them, they've always had fantastic customer support.

Sony BRAVIA KDL-V26A12U - John Lewis (online) seemed to accept it back ok, but wasn't as easy as it could have been. (required a couple of phone calls, and they lost the DVD recorder that was sent back, but found it a week or so later)

Sharp LC26GD7E - Richer Sounds (online) no problem returning it at all.

Sony BRAVIA KDL-32V2000 - Cheapelectricals.co.uk - loads of hassle, only gave me a refund because I was harrassing them, apparently. (sent 5/6 emails back & forth)

I can't even remember what else I've had now, although I'm sure that's not all.



Went with EmpireDirect again for the Plasma, and I know I'm going to regret it and have a hard time returning it to them, I just have a feeling about it. They have great prices, and are good at getting stuff to you, but have lousy after-sales support. (I only went with them because they were the cheapest for the plasma by almost £300)


Distance selling regulations should give you 7 working days after the day of delivery to evaluate it, and let you return it if you're not happy. This is the law, so it should take precedence over their terms and conditions, but most companies will say it has to be unused/unopened and argue (cheapelectricals especially) but how else are you supposed to evaluate it? Distance selling regs. only say you can't return opened CDs, DVDs, Software etc (things easily copied) not hardware.


EDIT: Must've missed your reply when typing up mine H-Man:

I'm was a little apprehensive about this too, but in the end was swayed by many positive reviews and think it's worth the risk. If it turns out to be a duffer it can always be sent back.

The one i've seen in the flesh had great picture quality (better than I could have hoped to get on the px60 with dvds and SD) and the geometry seemed spot on. These also allow you to toggle between 50 and 100hz, which is a must.

I hope you get a good one and are happy with it then. I thought they were discontinued though, where are you getting it?

As for image quality, I'm guessing that's because you had the HD Panasonic, not the ED one.

Agreed, I wouldn't consider these flashes a problem with movies/SD (although some - Sin City - were far worse than others). It was in games that they popped up frequently, and these did become very annoying. Games also looked considerably less detailed/vibrant at 720p than on an lcd. There really wasn't much between a px60 @ 720p and a good crt at 480p.

While the colours aren't as bright as LCD, I'd say there was plenty of saturation and accuracy. I guess games kinda favour inaccurate colours in that way. (but for things like skintones in games, it makes a big difference)

Even in most games I don't see it now, including things like PGR3 where it used to be bad - it's just dark stuff like the Prey demo, where it was particularly bad. (or the hitman demo, where it's got a lot of big bright areas) Games just seem to have a lot more contrast in them than video stuff does, which is what seems to cause it.

Haven't got Sin City to watch, but I don't see it on the advert that's showing on Sky Three.

[H-Man]

Went with EmpireDirect again for the Plasma, and I know I'm going to regret it and have a hard time returning it to them, I just have a feeling about it. They have great prices, and are good at getting stuff to you, but have lousy after-sales support. (I only went with them because they were the cheapest for the plasma by almost £300)

I'm suprised to here that, andrew. Empire Direct were very good about returning my plasma - especially as there was nothng technically wrong with it. The money was back in my account the week after they agreed to the refund.

My experience with John Lewis was similar, though. It took a few phone calls exlaining about the distance selling act to get a refund (this was on a Toshiba 32wlt66). They really didn't want to honour it, but gave in eventually. In the end they made a mistake and refunded me ?100 more than I paid - which I consider as payment for all the arsing about it took to get a refund.

Dixons were good about the Samsung LCD I returned, but they took some persuading too.

[H-Man]

I hope you get a good one and are happy with it then. I thought they were discontinued though, where are you getting it?

From http://www.buyatdigitalcentre.co.uk. They have some ex-display models available - the Tosh is going for ?499. It is alot for a used crt, but these are the business (assuming the issues you mentioned aren't present), and according to the guy I spoke to this one is in good condition (he would say that, though). I'd been trying to find this model for ages without any luck, so snapped this up straight away.

As for image quality, I'm guessing that's because you had the HD Panasonic, not the ED one

Almost certainly. I honestly can't undertand why people are buying HD Ready sets.

[Hodge]

Many thanks, will keep those places in mind when ordering my next set.

[marcodolo]

I'm thinking of upgrading to a LCD TV. With one eye on the future I want a HD ready one, but really I only use a Tv to watch Freeview and as a keen gamer play my consoles. How do the older consoles look on LCDs, eg Saturn, psone, American Snes and the newer ps2 look. Also with the lack of scarts can you still use a switchable scart box on it. I'm tempted to go for the Samsung LE 32R73BDX with a budget of 500-850.
Any thoughts or other recommedations?

[andrewfee]

I'm thinking of upgrading to a LCD TV. With one eye on the future I want a HD ready one, but really I only use a Tv to watch Freeview and as a keen gamer play my consoles. How do the older consoles look on LCDs, eg Saturn, psone, American Snes and the newer ps2 look. Also with the lack of scarts can you still use a switchable scart box on it. I'm tempted to go for the Samsung LE 32R73BDX with a budget of 500-850.
Any thoughts or other recommedations?

Honestly, it'd be stupid to go for an HDTV in your situation (eg not using HD) unless you don't care how it looks. Trust me, I've gone through 7 HD LCDs, and I wouldn't buy one again now.

I'd be looking at the Sharp P55/P70 if you want LCD, or something like the Panasonic TH37PD60 plasma.

[Kron]

There is absolutely no point throwing away ?500-800 on a Samsung.

[marcodolo]

Yeah, really I need 32 inch screen TV with integrated freeview thats good for gaming. The only reason I chose a LCD was of the depth and Samsung coz it looked the business. I dont like the size of the CRTS, they're monsters. My best bet would be the slimline Samsung CRT but it doesnt get favourable comments on forums or appear to have freeview. I still favour a LCD, but which one?
Any help is appreciated

[Lyris]

I'd say the Sony BRAVIA S-Series right now gives the best balance of performance/price.

[sj33]

Interesting, seems Oppo can no longer sell their players in the EU...

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366023

[andrewfee]

Interesting, seems Oppo can no longer sell their players in the EU...

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366023

It's a real shame - it's been known about for long enough to have been avoided.

This is probably going to sound a bit weird, but I don't suppose anyone knows if such a TV exists: Flat 21" (or thereabouts) 50Hz 4:3 CRT that doesn't do any processing to an RGB signal (preferably doesn't even have a sharpness control) but does have temperature adjustments in a service menu? (or does having temp. adjustments mean it's doing processing?)

Just the one RGB input is fine, and component even with just 480p support would be nice, but I doubt you'd get anything like that on one.


EDIT: Of course after having just said that, it looks like Panasonic's 21" CRT meets those requirements. I don't think there's a component input, but it's got RGB and does have all the adjustments necessary in the service menu. I'm guessing it probably isn't the "clean" RGB you get on old CRTs, but there probably isn't anything that lets you change temperature that is these days. (and I don't plan on making the adjustments with the back of the TV off)

[H-Man]

Having just sold my plasma for a crt that has no dvi or hdmi input i'm looking to sell my Oppo. Do you guys think these will be worth a little more now? It's only a few weeks old, and it'd be nice to make back my money.