Star Trek XII: Into Darkness

[teddymeow]

Yeah, Urban steals it again for me. Just ahead of Pegg and Yelchin. I thought Cho was good too.

[eastyy]

excellent film got to agree about some of the cast being underutilised but on the whole really enjoyed it (some moments though could have done with red shirts jokes though)

[buster_broon]

Trekkies can't get angry with things being changed really because this trek is an alternate time line so everything is up to be altered

Looking forward to it on a proper IMAX screen at the glasgow science museum on the 15th

[Neon Ignition]

Watched it today and overall really enjoyed it, first half felt on par with what the last film was like whilst the second half was sheer spectacle with great acknowledgements of Trek lore. Great stuff.

[originalbadboy]

I just love the way everything got turned on its head ... A very clever way of using the alternate reality storyline. Ok the inclusion of

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Spock Prime

wasn't exactly necesarry, but it made sense in the context of the story.

And then of course there was that certain bit that everyone knew was coming as some point, but it didn't happen when I thought it was going to. As stated very clever writing, certainly a lot more clever than the first film.

[paulus]

Saw it in Imax 3D last night, loved the first and wanted to ensure I saw the sequel in the best way possible - Wow!!! well worth the extra squids. The 3D picture quality was a world away from the normal presentations, no dizzyness either, the resolution was much, much higher and the sound seemed to surround you better with a much improved bass - Recommended!

PS - Film wasnt bad either - 8 out of 10

[Dogg Thang]

Saw this today and generally thought it was awesome. The main cast were great with Karl Urban stealing the show once more (would have given him more screen time). He really is a perfect Bones and works so well with Pine's Kirk and Quinto's Spock. Really like Greenwood as Pike again and was very glad he returned.

A real action-fest just like the trailers made out and possibly felt a little less Star Trekky in some ways (I rewatched the previous film last night, which is still pretty great) but it had loads to offer and was tons of fun. Cumberbatch chewed up the scenery and really would have made Shatner seem subtle.

But there were some things that I found VERY distracting and negatively affected the movie for me. The main things can only be discussed as spoilers and really are major spoilers so don't read the stuff below before you've seen the movie. But some things were just little things that kicked me out of the film. Like a single Alice Eve underwear shot that seemed to exist solely so there would be an underwear shot they could use in the trailer. That scene served no other function and I found it cheap. At least take the time to write in some decent nudity if that's what you're going for.

But for the Star Trekky SPOILER stuff, I felt the previous movie did a fantastic job at getting us to accept new actors in classic roles, tell a new story without having to make it a reboot and I felt this movie failed at that same aim. SPOILERS....

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My obvious problem was the identity of villain. Loved Cumberbatch and then we got the reveal, the one many had speculated about. And I'm thinking, hmm... Khan was meant to be Indian, played by Montalban (not Indian), and here is the whitest white British guy on the planet. Okay maybe outside of albinos. Now Khan being Indian wasn't a major plot point originally but it was a strong part of his identity. And while Montalban wasn't in any way Indian, the history clearly informed the character and the mix of that written history and Montalban's performance led to a character I felt was much more interesting than Cumberbatch's British guy. Not hugely about a specific part of Khan, not even fully about his colour - although I have no doubt some will call whitewash here and I don't think I'd blame them and, given the reaction to a Korean playing Japanese Sulu, I have no doubt some fans will be seething about this one - but I felt the Khan we see here has absolutely no connection to the Khan we saw in Space Seed and Wrath of Khan.

That wouldn't be an issue if this were a complete remake or could be taken on its own merits.

But the film bombards us with reminders of the original - Carol Marcus, Old Spock, that reactor scene. HEY TREK FANS! REMEMBER STAR TREK II?! How could I possibly judge Cumberbatch on his own merits when the film is beating me over the head to remind me that IS mostly the same universe (split long after Khan was born) and that I should be picturing Montalban. If they wanted me to take Cumberbatch at face value, the old Spock scene was a seriously bad idea.

And the death scene? That failed miserably for me. Because I knew they couldn't kill Kirk. This was cheap before it even played out because I knew he was going to be fine and had figured out how he was going to be fine before his 'death'. So that whole emotional scene just came across as cheap and pointless to me and, again, only served to remind me of Star Trek II. Sure enough, it was fixed exactly how I thought it would be.

So this film ended up being a mix of Space Seed and Wrath of Khan and, for me, that was where the film ran into trouble because I couldn't help but compare them and see where this film didn't quite work for me. Had this dude been John Harrison or they had made a film that stood on its own without constantly referring back to the originals, it would have been a better film IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I thought it was a great film with tons of excitement but I think that very much in spite of these issues. I think this Trek universe is strong enough that they should have resisted turning it into effectively a remake, something the previous movie managed to avoid nicely.

Oh and I thought the Klingon looked rubbish. Not fussy about how a Klingon should look. Just didn't quite like this.

So yes, I had some serious Trek-related problems. But the film is a really enjoyable ride and the characters were all great once more. Like a Trek-themed action romp.

[djtickle]

I pretty much agree with Dogg Thang great film and plenty of action to boot. It had about 30mins more action at the end than I thought it was going to. Spoilers below dont look if you have not seen!

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I also thought the death scene was pointless and the end result was obvious due to it being Kirk and Bones mentioning why he was injecting the quibble? earlier in the movie. It would have been much better if they had done it with another character that Spock had a connection with maybe Uhura? As they wanted to show emotion coming from Spock.

[originalbadboy]

I am about as much a Trekkie as you could find (short of dressing up going to ComicCon), I can see why some may see the same issues as you see Dogg. Personally I am not going to worry about stuff like that, its nitpicking really and that's all. I have no issues with the story line personally, in the end its based on an alternative reality, so everything is fair game to be changed as far as I am concerned.

There is some sort of cosmic rebalancing going on when you think about it. And yes I agree I could see some of the plot devices going in the direction that they went in, it was pretty obvious. Personally it didn't ruin any scene for me, even though I still knew what was going to happen. And it also has implications for any future film as well.

Its very easy to be flippant about these things and say they

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copied this or copied that

, but in the end this is all based around an alternative reality, so

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the same story can be told from a different angle

quite easily without it being an issue.

Bit like the

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Mirror Universe

episodes seen in various TV shows. I have no problems when it comes to stuff like that. I can't see how the

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Klingons look rubbish

, they look the same as they always have.

Personally I think they have been very clever with what they did, some can see it as lazy if they want, but for me it was a pretty bold move because it might not have worked. For me it did though, and just made the experience that much better.

Personaly I think this is far more for Trek fans that the first one ever was, there is still enough stuff for the non fans as well, but this is far more fan service than we had in the first film.

[Dogg Thang]

The reality is only alternative from a very specific point in time. If this was really an anything-goes alternate reality, the

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Old Spock scene shouldn't have been there as anything old Spock knew should have been entirely irrelevant. They even went so far as to write in a line explaining how the Botany Bay was found earlier in this timeline - that was clearly there for fans if TOS and yet that too shouldn't be needed if this didn't tie into the older movies. That's the thing, the ties are theirs rather than just mine. If they truly wanted to go their own way with this, that is exactly what they should have done. They didn't.

To give a simple example, I had no issue with them turning Starbuck into a woman in Battlestar. But if they did that and then tried to tell me that's the same Starbuck as in the original, that wouldn't quite fit with me for what I would think are obvious reasons. That's kind of what they did here with Khan. They didn't need a guy that looked just like Montalban, they didn't need to match his voice. But if they are making it that character, for me, they needed to make it that character. Just as they have done brilliantly with the crew.

Didn't kill the movie for me. Much of what I wrote was positive and I stand by my comment that it's awesome. But I was distracted by what they did with Khan, among the other things.

I will not dismiss your opinion but, in turn, I'd really appreciate you not trying to dismiss mine as 'nitpicking' simply because you don't agree.

[originalbadboy]

Sorry but I just see it as nitpicking .. that's my view, don't take it personally ...

In the end they have to keep both sets of people happy, again I have no problems with them explaining

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how the Botany Bay got found.

That's still an intergral part of the story and if they hadn't included that, people would have been asking what happened, so you can't win either way. You put it in to the story and people moan, you don't put it in and people moan. It still needed to be explained how

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Khan was found. How else were they supposed to do it then, as if that's the back story of the character, there is no other way it could have been done that I can see. It may be alternative timeline, but the whole point is that there will still be similarities otherwise its not Star trek any more.

Speaking of

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Khan

I never understood the whole agrument regarding

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name and his heritage and who should play him

. He is

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genetically engineered

his name is

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completely irrelevant considering he was born in a lab. In the end it was probably a name that was chosen for him, or one he chose himself. Regardless who plays him and the color of his skin is completely meaningless.

[Dogg Thang]

Ah, okay. Your last sentences kind of say it all.

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You haven't actually seen Space Seed, have you? You don't know the character?

[originalbadboy]

Ah, okay. Your last sentences kind of say it all.

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You haven't actually seen Space Seed, have you? You don't know the character?

Yes I have seen it .. Plenty of times ... But in the end the

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Khan you get in II is completely different to the Khan you get in Space Seed.

So whats your point exactly?

I guess that's the issue that you are having is that i you pick up on all these minute details you will never enjoy anything. In the end plenty of trek canon has been altered over the years to make it fit to what it needs to, fundamental stuff like who invented the warp drive, and what happened to Christopher Pike are two good examples. I suppose you didn't enjoy those changes either?

Anyway .. I enjoyed it regardless , we can argue about this till the cows come home, and plenty of other people have in the past about the same very things. If you have had trouble with those things and it spoiled your enjoyment of the film then so be it, it didn't for me.

[Dogg Thang]

So whats your point exactly?

It wasn't a point in itself. It was just speculation that would have explained things to me, based on you saying you had a lack of understanding of the issue. Guess I was wrong. Bruce Greenwood is an awesome Pike. I said that in my post, along with also saying this issue didn't spoil my enjoyment. I would speculate that you didn't really read it but I could turn out to be wrong about that too.

Anyway, I believe the cows have returned...

So, speculation on what's up for Star Trek 3? Will there be one now that JJ is doing Star Wars? Got to be a big Klingon war, right? I would love them to find a way of moving past the villain out for revenge thing as we have had this for the last three movies and each time their motivations have seemed a little fudged. Part of me thinks they won't stray far from the big action bad guy thing as I imagine this movie will clean up like no Star Trek before it but given the premise of the end - SPOILERS (don't read)

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the actual beginning of an exploration mission

- I'd love to see some real exploration and big sci-fi discoveries. As much as there was tons of humour in this one (and there was) I don't think they have to get as dark or serious as this one tried so I could do with a good space adventure. I think I feel like this young crew still have a lot of getting to know each other before I can fully buy the emotional weight they went for in a couple of places here.

Hoping Bones gets more to do next time. Urban plays him so well. Maybe a Bones/Scotty buddy movie...

[nonny]

Watched it in 3D yesterday. I'm no big Trekkie but I've seen all the movies & pretty much most of the series and spin offs. Gotta say... I loved this.

I still don't like JJ Abrams affliction to lens flare but story-wise I liked what they did here and especially where it ends as a setup for something fans can really start to chew on. Reading the spoilers above... Yep I think that is precisely where it is heading...

Sure some of the plot points in this were a bit obvious if you know even some of the back story but as a whole it was paced well. Lots of Bones humour, all main actors really getting into their roles and there was something for everyone. Even my mrs loved it, that in itself is a positive review!!

I still can't handle Clegg doing a Scottish accent but hey... Minor niggle.