Star Wars Episode 7

[fishbowlhead]

Had a thought earlier that may change how I perceive the Star Wars movies, unless I'm missing something (which is possible). Here it is: Luke's usefulness ended in ANH and the SW universe doesn't need Jedi and, really, should be unlikely to have any after RotJ.

Luke saved Leia and blew up the first Death Star. Nobody else seemed to be doing this so this makes him a major player in that story, obviously. Did he use the force to make that shot? Well he knew next to nothing about the force at that point but let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he did.

But then? Nothing.

The rebel fleet organised the knocking out of the shield generator for the second Death Star and its destruction. Unlike the rescue of Leia, if Han and Lando hadn't done these things someone else would have - they had an army. What did Luke contribute? He went and had a chat with the Emperor while fighting his dad. It achieved nothing because the Death Star being blown up would have killed them anyway. You could make a case that he was a distraction but the Emperor seemed so cocky about the Death Star being operational that he wasn't really aware anyway. And even if you bought that role, it means the single Jedi in the universe's role is - oh look, it's the Good Year blimp! So Luke's contribution as a Jedi is negligible. What was all the training for? Not a thing.

So then after RotJ. Well we know in ANH that both the Empire and regular smugglers are dismissive of the force as ancient religious nonsense. Lucas in his infinite wisdom kind of messed that up in the prequels by having armies of magic Jedi in the lifetime of these same people but we'll take the main good movies as primary canon here because they happen after the prequels chronologically. So by Luke's day, nobody really believes in the force. And we know the force played no significant role in the destruction of the second Death Star, where the Emperor was killed. The mission was orchestrated and carried out by non-force normal people.

So at the end of RotJ, who is going to care about the force? Just one person: Luke Skywalker. And if he had any sense, he would stay well away from it. Why? Because from what he was told, the reason his dad turned to the dark side is because Ben wasn't good enough a teacher. Ben was fully trained. Luke never was. What hope does he stand of training a Jedi successfully without risking them turn to the dark side? And why even do it? There were no Sith. The only real way you'd end up with an all-powerful force-wielding enemy is by training someone and having them turn to the dark side. So not much good came from Jedi in the main movies (backed up by the prequels if you want to consider those) and serious risk from even trying.

To conclude: Luke didn't bring down the Empire and no good would come from encouraging anyone to use the force post-RotJ.

Well that's all pretty spot on and I agree with it all. How luke hopes to train anything given he's effective uselessness as a Jedi in the films is beyond me.

Maybe we'll see a desperate, not very powerful old Luke that will be willing to play just as dirty as the Sith in this movie, it's not like he even matched vader let alone sidius for power.

[Neon Ignition]

I'm assuming Luke is going to be an uber badass loner in the new film, coaxed out by the arrival of the bad guy if it is indeed a long dormant Old Lord. I'm assuming they'll take some liberties with the Jedi/Sith extinction storyline because of how poorly the prequel trilogy dealt with it. I'm assuming also that Han's kid will be one of the new ones, possibly trained to some level by Leia who despite not showing any Jedi skills in the original trilogy had been highlighted as gifted so could have developed some skill in the 30 years that followed. It's nice that this isn't bound like the prequels were by events already told, though I'm, expecting all sorts of homage over the coming films... I'll be amazed if a Vade-esque villain doesn't appear sooner or later.

[bash]

Luke still has Ben, Anakin and Yoda as luminous beams of light to carry on training and start a new academy. However going by the title Im gonna guess Luke has pretty much lived alone, celibate like a gay monk for most his life until the new Sith forces him into action, hence the young cast who wlil be like the Star Trek reboot kinda brought into each others paths through the protagonist somehow.

Also in regards to no one believing in the force like Han Solo or some of the Darths empire colleagues I believe thats easily explained via massive universe wide Empire propaganda. You dont think its conceivable that the Empire would make serious efforts to sully the name or simply eradicate the truth regarding the jedis, their schools and their teaching? Look at what the Nazis achieved regarding Jewish people or America scaring the masses regarding Socialism/Communism like it was evil. The Empire (who were based/influcenced by Nazis already) controlled with an Iron fist via fear.

[Dogg Thang]

They didn't convince people it was evil. They managed to convince them it didn't exist, which was no easy task given their presence just a few decades before.

['Press Start']

I am now on blackout until December 2015. 2 IMAX trips next year then, Avengers and this.

[Asura]

II'm assuming also that Han's kid will be one of the new ones, possibly trained to some level by Leia who despite not showing any Jedi skills in the original trilogy had been highlighted as gifted

She did, in Empire, I think - going back for Luke on Bespin. I know Luke tried to get her to come back, but I'm pretty sure it's meant to be mutual. That, and Yoda's "there is another" probably puts this beyond contention; she can likely be a Jedi if she tries.

[bash]

Yeah, but you get the point yawl

[MartyG]

So Luke's contribution as a Jedi is negligible. What was all the training for? Not a thing.

In the expanded universe Luke goes on to create the New Jedi Order, so makes use of those Jedi skills from Yoda (Yoda states Luke requires no more training, that is canon). However, the expanded universe has been decanonedised, so essentially ep VII could go in a completely different direction. The only true canon is Lucas canon at this point - Luke did help form Rogue Squadron which helped the rebels escape from Hoth, arguably it's his Jedi skills, or at least his force affinity that give him the pilot skills. Mind he did crash his Snowspeeder

[fishbowlhead]

In the expanded universe Luke goes on to create the New Jedi Order, so makes use of those Jedi skills from Yoda (Yoda states Luke requires no more training, that is canon). However, the expanded universe has been decanonedised, so essentially ep VII could go in a completely different direction. The only true canon is Lucas canon at this point - Luke did help form Rogue Squadron which helped the rebels escape from Hoth, arguably it's his Jedi skills, or at least his force affinity that give him the pilot skills. Mind he did crash his Snowspeeder

He seemed pretty useless and quite a weak Jedi in the films, certainly couldn't stand up to vader properly or Palpatine. Lets hope he's improved somewhat otherwise itle be a short film with him getting swiftly cut down by a Sith lord, especially an old one if that turns out to be true.

[Guts]

Had a thought earlier that may change how I perceive the Star Wars movies, unless I'm missing something (which is possible). Here it is: Luke's usefulness ended in ANH and the SW universe doesn't need Jedi and, really, should be unlikely to have any after RotJ.

Luke saved Leia and blew up the first Death Star. Nobody else seemed to be doing this so this makes him a major player in that story, obviously. Did he use the force to make that shot? Well he knew next to nothing about the force at that point but let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he did.

But then? Nothing.

He turned off his computer (they said the shot was almost impossible even with the computer) so obviously he used the Force.

Two things regarding Luke's importance after that:

1) It was Luke who used the Force on Endor to convince the Ewoks that 3PO was a "god", Without Luke's trick the Ewoks would have barbecued them and the attack on the shield generator would have failed meaning the Rebel Fleet would have been destroyed.

2) If Luke hadn't killed the Emperor and redeemed Vader, they could have both escaped Death Star to just regroup the Imperial forces. Remember that Luke had time to escape the Death Star so Emperor would have had time to flee too.

He seemed pretty useless and quite a weak Jedi in the films, certainly couldn't stand up to vader properly or Palpatine.

Useless and weak? Did you see The Return of the Jedi? Luke single-handedly defeated Darth Vader, one of the most powerful Sith of all time.

[Dogg Thang]

He turned off his computer (they said the shot was almost impossible even with the computer) so obviously he used the Force.

Wedge was moaning about it being impossible. He's clearly just a moaner. Luke used to bullseye womp rats in his T-16 back home. They're not much bigger than two meters. Either way, he made the shot so well done Luke.

You make a good point about getting the Ewoks on side. Doesn't quite put him on a hallowed Jedi pedestal but very valid nonetheless because things could have gone very differently on Endor had Luke not been there. Less convinced about the second point due to the Emperor's cockiness. Maybe Vader would have made it off but, again, that would place Luke's role as merely a distraction while the main event was handled by regular non-Jedis. He didn't have to kill them. Someone just had to run the clock.

[bash]

I thought Vader was an average sith compared to those before him?

[MartyG]

If Luke hadn't killed the Emperor and redeemed Vader, they could have both escaped Death Star to just regroup the Imperial forces. Remember that Luke had time to escape the Death Star so Emperor would have had time to flee too.
.

Vader killed the Emperor, but we never see the Emperor actually die, just an explosion. How do we know that he didn't survive?

[Dogg Thang]

He was blown to safety, the way people are in real life.

[Guts]

I thought Vader was an average sith compared to those before him?

Well, obviously he didn't have the planet-destroying-powers of the ridiculously over-powered Sith in the comics and books etc. but he was certainly one of the most powerful, I mean he did kill Palpatine.

Vader killed the Emperor, but we never see the Emperor actually die, just an explosion. How do we know that he didn't survive?

Yeah, Vader kills Palpatine because of Luke was what I meant. And the Emperor comes back in a clone body in the Expanded Universe after a couple of years, but that's not Disney canon anymore.

He was blown to safety, the way people are in real life.

Maybe he hid in an air-tight refrigerator which flew through space and landed safely to Coruscant?