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    No point going back to Caprica, they'd just get attacked again. For the Cylon bit, see my post a few pages back about the direction I believe the series is taking for s4. That pretty much ties everything together semi cohesively.

    Basically they're looking for The Five who I believe originated on Earth.

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      Thanks for the replies, forgot there was a mini-series, still will keep me going once 24/Lost/Heroes etc etc are finished

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        Okay who knows their Battlestar history? Not looking for theory - just fact as presented in the show. Just watched the S3 finale and need something cleared up.


        Okay, humans created the Cylons. We get that every episode. Now, if I remember the miniseries correctly (and I may well not), the first Cylon War was with clanky metal Cylons as we saw them in the old show. Then they vanished, came back as the human Cylons something like thirty or forty years later. Is that right?

        Wasn't there reference to Saul Tighe being part of that war along with Adama or am I getting that completely wrong?

        If so, doesn't that mean Saul physically can't be a Cylon? Aside from the fact (I say fact but my bad memory could kill it dead) that Cylons were clanky metal dudes at that point, Tighe and Adama's military positions would mean their records would have to be pretty complete - they couldn't have been planted mid-career.

        I must have the timeline wrong, do I? When was the first Cylon War in relation to the series?

        I thought the episode was great but I thought aquitting Baltar was a bit of a cop-out and, though I love the show and the human characters, I have a real Lost feel about the Cylons. In that the writers haven't a rat's ass notion what they're doing with them. Hence the need for half-baked theories from fans. Plot aside, it's a very well-written show. The characters really carry it well. Even the filler episodes (of which there were too many) were usually very enjoyable.

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          The supposition is that

          The First Five are much older than the other "human" Cylon models, and basically the rest are playing catchup. Since the first Cylon war was purely with the metal Centurions who piloted standard Cylon ships (not ships that were Cylons) the human models and all the other technology must've kept back for some reason. I'm sure Ron Moore etc are making it up as they go along and filling in the details in a retcon manner. The First Five might well turn out to be the 13th Tribe and already be on Earth for all I know.

          Tigh & Co's "activation" might be because they're nearing Earth and other First Fives, and have some role to perform, perhaps to save the humans and guide them to Earth so that they can all live in glorious harmony, I dunno. I think this is what's been hinted at forever with Baltar and the baby etc, with the other, more immature Cylons moving towards the enlightenment that the First Fives had ages past.

          Last edited by anephric; 23-05-2007, 02:09.

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            Hmmm... okay, but (and, again, I'm trying to rescue my memory of those early episodes) -

            we're reminded at the beginning of every episode that humans created the Cylons. They can't be that much older because I thought the implication was that Cylons went to being servant to going to war without much of a break - indeed, their break after the first war was made much of. If Tighe was a veteran of the first war, he must have had service records during and before that time.

            I think you're right - they're just making it up as they go along. There was a quote in that interview that said "It's exactly the kind of thing I want people to chew over the next few months." I think by "people", he meant "our writers".

            Ah well. That has become the thorn in the side of any show that moves outside the boundaries of reality.

            Edit: Oh, there's an interesting thing in Bear McCreary's blog. He's the composer. I had taken it that the song, All Along the Watchtower, was going through space as broadcasts do and that the final five (or just four) could pick it up. Or get a hint of it at least. I mean, it's an Earth song. We live here, we know that. But Bear McCreary says different - "the idea was not that Bob Dylan necessarily exists in the characters' universe, but that an artist on one of the colonies may have recorded a song with the exact same melody and lyrics. Perhaps this unknown performer and Dylan pulled inspiration from a common, ethereal source. Therefore, I was told to make no musical references to any "Earthly" versions". Interesting.

            Last edited by Dogg Thang; 23-05-2007, 08:42.

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              I've posted about this above mate, but The Five Cylons are effectively a different breed of Cylon - they're from another time. Either Cylon evolution is inevitable, or The Fifth is somehow responsible for this latest iteration of Cylons.

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                Meaning that every single episode of BSG has been lying to us with its opening line - it clearly states 'The Cylons were created by man'.

                You could be right but I'd think that was pretty pox. Even sci-fi shows or supernatural whatevers should be true to their own rules.

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                  Unless the five were created by the 13th tribe (what was it, 4000 years prior to the current events?) during there trip

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                    Man created the Cylons. At least the first iteration of Cylons. Whether they are responsible for the second ones, well I personally doubt it. The 4 of The Five we know about have been instrumental in safeguarding man, so I doubt they created the latest Cylons.

                    In all probability, at least this is how I'd play it, man created Cylons twice - originally on Earth, then thousands of years later in the Galactica timeframe. I'm sure it's going to be turn out Cylons are a "natural" evolution of man, that man will always create AI and man ends up battling the AI. And ultimately the AI evolves itself from metal machines to human replicas, as they aspire to be their creators.

                    It's all that "It has happened before and it will happen again" spiel that Starbuck is constantly fed.

                    I think the 13th Tribe is a misrepresentation. The Five were there (forget the planet name) when the Twelve Tribes left to form the Twelve Colonies. I think Man came from Earth in the first place. And they fled to that planet from Earth after a Cylon war there, similar to how Galactica is fleeing Caprica. Cylons evolve [to human replicas, find compassion like we've seen some models doing in the last series] influence the forming of The Twelve Colonies. And The Five take the 13th Tribe back to Earth to recolonise it. And 4 or 5 models of The Five go the Twelve Colonies to watch and step in if needed (ie. if Cylons are ever created again). Maybe the Fifth who we don't know about is an evil cylon who created Cylons in the Galactica time period. Who knows!

                    The more interesting aspect I've not tied in to it is the importance of Starbuck. Maybe, just maybe, they're going to go way, way out there, and Starbuck will be our equivalent of God. Why not? If Man is effectively God to the Cylons, why not have someone/something responsible for the creation of Man. She has some spiritual connection to the past Cylons.

                    Maybe it's just fate. The Dying Leader and all that.

                    But I'd prefer there to be some unifying theory behind it, something a bit more clever than Fate and "It is bound to happen again". And that would have to be Starbuck, in some way.

                    I don't think they're making it up as they go along. At least I'd like to think they're not. Maybe they didn't decide who The Five were until late in series 3, but hopefully they'd planned to go this way.

                    Let's hope there's only 1 season left and they go out on a high.

                    BTW hope some of my ramblings make sense.

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                      Originally posted by Orgun View Post
                      Unless the five were created by the 13th tribe (what was it, 4000 years prior to the current events?) during there trip
                      No, The Five are the natural evolution of Cylons like the Sharon and other models we know.

                      BTW I could be totally wrong but I really like my theory

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                        Yeah, that's how I understood it too, Chain. About the second Cylons I mean. I'm pretty sure that was clear in the miniseries - man (of the 12 colonies) created the Cylons (metallic clunky), then the Cylons rebelled and the war started (about 50 years before the show starts - memory could be hazy on that), they vanished and evolved - the Cylons themselves creating the new 'toaster' model and the human models.

                        I still can't see how
                        could possibly fit in with that.

                        There is nothing to suggest he originated on Earth, given that the twelve models were announced as a unit. Also, even if he did originate on Earth, his placement doesn't seem feasible to me. That#s just me.

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                          See The Five as overseers, literally Watchmen (ties in with the Watchtower song). They'd been placed on the colonies to protect man from the inevitable Cylon creation. Now they are guiding them to Earth and safety. Some kind of Ascention maybe?

                          I'd have to rewatch the early series for all references to the Twelve cylon models. We have seven and The Five. All I can recall are the human cylons saying they don't talk about The Five. And they really don't seem to know too much about them. They talk of them with great reverence, as Gods. Maybe they don't talk about them because they're ashamed they know very little about them.

                          Quite possibly the writers planned on their being 12 models, then decided they needed to make things more interesting and they'll forget about that

                          Got to be link between Twelve Colonies and Twelve Cylons of course.

                          Listen my ideas are pure speculation. That's one possible way it can go. And I've spent quite a bit of time thinking about it, really adore the series, and I've considered a lot of alternatives. And of them all, I really like my Earth origins theory, it holds water, it ties in with everything, and it's just a great place for the story to go and wrap it all up.

                          I hope the writers have something even better than my little idea mate

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                            Yes, and its name is Dr Zee.

                            I'm not going to rain on your parade or anything, but the whole "inevitability" of the cyclical "AI wars" is a bit too Matrix-y for my liking and I hope Moore doesn't go there.

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                              Different though. In the Matrix it was Fate and Destiny. It was programmed to be that way (anyway the "real world" was another virtual world which was programmed to behave in that way).

                              Galactica is about Evolution.

                              The Starbuck situation throws up Fate though.

                              Any more ideas? Be interesting to hear where others think it's going.

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                                To be fair to Chain, the show has been going very fatey and Matrixish since even before the end of Season 1. At the time I didn't like it much as there was originally a lovely contrast between the religious machines and the humans who, though referencing old religions, really seemed to have left it behind.

                                The way the show is, with everything written in scriptures, the stuff Six used to spout and, as Chain points out, the whole Starbuck thing, his destiny theories could well be the diection they're going in.

                                I do feel it could end up digging their way out of a story rather than telling one but you could well be right, Chain.

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