Amy Winehouse RIP xxxx

[Shez]

Her song writing might improve under the influence, but her performance has gone out of the window.

If she can't perform what's she's written, then what's the point?

The drug usage looks a major problem to me, and it appears out of control, but at least it's keeping Pete Docherty out of the paper

[JazzFunk]

I'm a strong beliver in truckloads of drugs = great music. There's too many examples to think it's just coincidence, especially when they clean up and the albums turn to poop.

Quoted for truth.

[kernow]

god, I hate pete doherty, almost as much as neil morrisey

[angelx]

god, I hate pete doherty, almost as much as morrisey

fixed

[kernow]

morriseys music I don't really dig, but his overall moribund attitude to life I can gel with.

[spagmasterswift]

Her song writing might improve under the influence, but her performance has gone out of the window.

If she can't perform what's she's written, then what's the point?

Completely agree with you there:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2vfdl7-E80Q

[Brats]

I'd counter that by stating that she has never been much of a live performer - too much self indulgent warbling even before she hit all the headlines. She tends to reign it in more on the records.

[Nu-Eclipse]

Brats, fair play for the "Devil's Advocate" attempt, but surely you realize that it doesn't hold up at all?

1. I don't care if you are the most gorgeous creature on the planet, anyone who has a full flash camera shoved in their face when coming out of a bar set to take fifty shots a second will have at least some pictures that make them look grotesque. It's the most basic tabloid journalism on the planet, take a picture of someone as they blink or as they pull an expression and bingo - instant wasted minger.

Even the most cynical paparazzo would have a hard time making Amy Winehouse look any more grotesque than she currently does. Google before and after pics of her now for validation of this.

2. Anyone else notice that when Winehouse started to take drugs, that's when her talent arrived? Anyone listen to her first album? If she cleaned herself up, kiss goodbye to any more good tunes - same as most other musicians tbh. It's the sort with the destructive personalities that have the talent. It seems odd to decry that or assume they are separate.

I couldn't disagree more. The talent was always there. Her debut LP "Frank", failed to achieve major commercial success but it was critically acclaimed by all and won her a prestigious Ivor Novello award. Personally, it's a mainstay in my iPod and I prefer it to her most recent LP "Back To Black", which did gain both critical and commercial success that Winehouse was unable to capitalize on. Why? because by then she was already in the throes of drink, drug and anorexia problems which have gone on to hinder her performance capabilities quite badly. So for me, saying that she would lose her talent if she got her act together is utter nonsense. It would most likely be the opposite.

3. There are stars who have taken more drugs than would fill the Albert Hall and have had more nightmarish episodes in one evening that a Hostel film - yet they are still alive and kicking into their old age. Iggy Pop, Keith Richards, Mark E Smith, Lou Reed, David Bowie, etc, etc. Who's to say the Winehouse won't be the next one?

And why are those guys still around and not knocking at death's door? Simply because they've managed to curb their excesses. Sobering up/getting clean hasn't harmed their talents, legends and/or music/concert ticket sales, as far as I'm aware. Serious chances are that Winehouse won't be "the next one" if she doesn't get it together because she'll probably be dead.

I don't understand the obsession with finger pointing at her. She's yet another in a long line of damaged but talented musicians, you think we would have got used to it by now. Best thing would be to ignore all the tabloid ****e we are fed like sheep and hope she gets back to songwriting again.

True, but I would simply hazard a guess and say that the majority are dismayed that somebody with so much talent can seem so hell-bent of self-destruction.

[Brats]

Even the most cynical paparazzo would have a hard time making Amy Winehouse look any more grotesque than she currently does. Google before and after pics of her now for validation of this.

But the only pics that get published of her nowadays are those of her walking out a bar at 3am with her half blinking. And they get compared with pics taking of her from years ago at awards ceremonies when she will naturally be posing to look her best.

I agree she has lost a lot of weight, but for someone to be judged on the pics posted earlier in this thread is absurd.

I couldn't disagree more. The talent was always there. Her debut LP "Frank", failed to achieve major commercial success but it was critically acclaimed by all and won her a prestigious Ivor Novello award. Personally, it's a mainstay in my iPod and I personally prefer it to her most recent LP "Back To Black", which did gain both critical and commercial success that Winehouse was unable to capitalize on. Why? because she was already in the throes of drink, drug and anorexia problems which have gone on to hinder her performance capabilities quite badly. So for me, saying that she would lose her talent if she got her act together is utter nonsense. It would most likely be the opposite.

Is there an award less meaningful than an Ivor Norvello? (A Grammy quite possibly). I disagree that Frank was critically acclaimed by all - most recognised the vocal talent and the potential, but she was always going to remain a half decent artist on the fringe of greatness if she'd continued releasing more Franks. The songwriting in B2B is leagues ahead imo and that's when the writing talent arrived.

And how many great artists have cleaned up and remained just as great? Seriously, I'm struggling to think of one.

And why are those guys still around and not knocking at death's door? Simply because they've managed to curb their excesses. Sobering up/getting clean hasn't harmed their talents, legends and/or music/concert ticket sales, as far as I'm aware. Serious chances are that Winehouse won't be "the next one" if she doesn't get it together because she'll probably be dead.

All those I mentioned took excessive drugs for far longer than Amy has. And I strongly disagree that it hasn't harmed their talents - the recent Stooges LP was garbage (sadly), The Stones haven't written anything decent in over twenty years and both Bowie and Reed have the odd glimmer in was is frankly a mere shadow of their heydays. Only Mark E Smith has any genuine consistency, but he's not clean - not at all.

True, but I would simply hazard a guess and say that the majority are dismayed that somebody with so much talent can seem so hell-bent of self-destruction.

It comes with the territory - that may sound harsh, but it's the truth. Most of the truly great records that we enjoy were made by ****ed up people during the most ****ed up periods of their lives.

[spagmasterswift]

I'd counter that by stating that she has never been much of a live performer - too much self indulgent warbling even before she hit all the headlines. She tends to reign it in more on the records.

Come one man, she sounds like Bobcat Goldthwait...

[endo]

All those I mentioned took excessive drugs for far longer than Amy has. And I strongly disagree that it hasn't harmed their talents - the recent Stooges LP was garbage (sadly), The Stones haven't written anything decent in over twenty years and both Bowie and Reed have the odd glimmer in was is frankly a mere shadow of their heydays. Only Mark E Smith has any genuine consistency, but he's not clean - not at all.

I think the new Stooges record being crap has got less to do with Iggy not doing drugs anymore and more to do with them all being old men now. As much as I love Iggy's old stuff, he's an old dude now and he just can't get away with that stuff anymore. Ditto the Stones and Bowie etc. Old men just get boring. Off the top of my head I can't think of any decent rock bands that are old farts. I mean look at McCartney now. What a twat. Could you imagine what a boring old get Lennon would be now were he still alive?

That said, Kraftwerk are all pretty ancient now and still producing amazing music (IMO, natch). They've never exactly been renowned for an excessive lifestyle either and have produced records that are arguably as seminal as some of the bands mentioned above. Then again, clearly they aren't a rock outfit- maybe the well-worn drug lifestyle clich? only applies to rock bands.

As for Mark E Smith, fair enough he still drinks and does speed and all that, but he hasn't half produced some **** in his time alongside all the great Fall records.

[kernow]

I believe every artist goes through a period of releasing a load of crap you don't like. In the end they balance it out by making so bloody much of it some of it ends up being quite good.

[Brats]

kraftwerk haven't written much new for ages. Their tour de france album is mainly based on old stuff and their live stuff (whilst utterly brilliant) isn't new. Weren't they all rich boy stoners?

Johnny Cash arguably got better as he got older and was still pretty ****ed up (although not on coke).

[Ady]

The Ronson's production was tip top, but the song writing is still really strong. Unlike her first album in which she has a great voice, but the songs are completely forgettable..

This only applies when the artists in question are actually making music at the time.

Nowadays, it seems to be a case that someone becomes an overnight success by chance and then spends the rest of their "career" in and our of rehab whilst contributing little to nothing musically, a la Winehouse/Doherty...

In turn, they become famous for being cracked our rather than for their music.

[Brats]

I agree with your last point for those two, but neither of them became successful "by chance".