Amy Winehouse RIP xxxx

[Ady]

What I mean by that is they got lucky. After all, becoming "famous" isn't so much about talent as it is being in the right place at the right time. Not to say Winehouse isn't a talented singer, because she is (though I do think Pete Doherty is hugely overrated), but like most people who got their lucky break, it wasn't just about talent. (There are many non-talented famous people after all...)

[Brats]

Both of them became famous based on word of mouth initially, because they were great songwriters (in a lot of people's opinion) and they offered something different from other artists at the time. Doherty's persona was definitely increased by his girlfreind, but like the Gallaghers he became famous initially because of the music. The complete opposite of luck in fact.

[Nu-Eclipse]

Is there an award less meaningful than an Ivor Norvello? (A Grammy quite possibly). I disagree that Frank was critically acclaimed by all - most recognised the vocal talent and the potential, but she was always going to remain a half decent artist on the fringe of greatness if she'd continued releasing more Franks. The songwriting in B2B is leagues ahead imo and that's when the writing talent arrived.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. An Ivor Novello is prestigious. Grammies and The Mercury/Nationwide Music Prize may just be more so but they're definitely more meaningful than Brit Awards, that's for sure.

Frank was critically acclaimed - it just didn't sell much. The big problem for Winehouse with her debut LP was that she came onto the scene at a time when the "New-Jazz" scene was already dominated by the likes of Norah Jones & Katie Melua, artists who were more geared towards an easy listening style and thus more commercially successful, whereas Frank had slight tinges of R'n'B and was thus considered to have an edge to it, perhaps too much so. Frank still holds strong due to the simple fact that several of the tracks from it are rock-solid mainstays at Winehouse's gigs, or at least they were before her personal issues escalated.

Yes, Back To Black easily trumps Frank in terms of production and more hits on a track-for-track basis, but Frank still holds up very well in terms of songwriting and it isn't at all the mediocre album that you imply it to be.

[Brats]

Fair enough it's just a matter of opinion on Frank

But concerning the Ivors, the last two songwriter of the year awards have gone to Mika and The Feeling. Previous winners have included James Blunt and Phil Collins.

Your honour, I rest my case.

[Nu-Eclipse]

Fair enough it's just a matter of opinion on Frank

But concerning the Ivors, the last two songwriter of the year awards have gone to Mika and The Feeling. Previous winners have included James Blunt and Phil Collins.

Your honour, I rest my case.

Fair play concerning Mika & The Feeling, but it is worth noting that Collins has won a Grammy, an Oscar for Best Original Song and has also had US chart success - the Holy Grail for many a British artist, especially in recent times.

[spagmasterswift]

Fair play concerning Mika & The Feeling, but it is worth noting that Collins has won a Grammy, an Oscar for Best Original Song and has also had US chart success - the Holy Grail for many a British artist, especially in recent times.

Do you like Phil Collins? I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Christy, take off your robe. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. Sabrina, remove your dress. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Sabrina, why don't you, uh, dance a little. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as anything I've heard in rock. Christy, get down on your knees so Sabrina can see your asshole. Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and Against All Odds. Sabrina, don't just stare at it, eat it. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Sussudio, a great, great song, a personal favorite.

[vanpeebles]

movie quotes for the win.

[kernow]

haha excellent.

[funkydan]

Spags wins!

[Baseley09]

It never concerned me that I had the majority of albums featured in that movie. I embrace it.

[funkydan]

Baseley09 = psycho killer!

[Baseley09]

Everyone has psychotic tendencies, they just need a push to trigger them.

[Nu-Eclipse]

Do you like Phil Collins? I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Christy, take off your robe. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. Sabrina, remove your dress. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Sabrina, why don't you, uh, dance a little. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as anything I've heard in rock. Christy, get down on your knees so Sabrina can see your asshole. Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and Against All Odds. Sabrina, don't just stare at it, eat it. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Sussudio, a great, great song, a personal favorite.

(*applauds*)

Spags - credit where it is due: that's an excellent post!

Am I a Phil Collins fan? I'm indifferent to him - I neither hate nor love his music. I was just pointing out facts regarding him.

[dataDave]

And why are those guys still around and not knocking at death's door?

Because women can't handle drugs sensibly. Everything is in excess with these bitches, it's insane.

[Brats]

Because women can't handle drugs sensibly. Everything is in excess with these bitches, it's insane.

Madonna and Patti Smith seem to have done okay with these 'excesses'.