Steve Jobs Leaves Us

[monel]

Didn't read all the previous posts thoroughly, but I think knowledge can come from any culture or belief system and help you. There is no one truth either, often in life, different things touch different people- if something helps you make sense of life or your own life at a particular time, then it can only be a good thing regardless of origin. I've met too many people who say, 'But they believe that, I don't want to know', without considering the validity of the message.

[endo]

Didn't read all the previous posts thoroughly, but I think knowledge can come from any culture or belief system and help you. There is no one truth either, often in life, different things touch different people- if something helps you make sense of life or your own life at a particular time, then it can only be a good thing regardless of origin. I've met too many people who say, 'But they believe that, I don't want to know', without considering the validity of the message.

This does apply, but only to a point. There are people in this world whose entire world view is governed by the belief that white people are intrinsically better than black people, for example, and there are many more 'beliefs' more unsavoury than that. There is no real 'truth' or 'knowledge' to be gained from beliefs like that. And ****ty beliefs like that do help some people make sense of their life at particular times. That doesn't mean that belief is universally good. It's not.

[monel]

Very good point, I was being extremely naieve by ignoring damaging beliefs. Generalising always brings problems, but I suppose what I meant was more to do with knowledge than belief. This is personal for me, I have had someone recently refuse to talk to me anymore because he didn't like the things I was quoting, but I'm like a magpie, anything that's interesting and has some truth in it is a tool for me to understand my life and the world.

[endo]

Very good point, I was being extremely naieve by ignoring damaging beliefs. Generalising always brings problems, but I suppose what I meant was more to do with knowledge than belief. This is personal for me, I have had someone recently refuse to talk to me anymore because he didn't like the things I was quoting, but I'm like a magpie, anything that's interesting and has some truth in it is a tool for me to understand my life and the world.

Fair enough and I see what you're saying. Problem is that some people see 'truth' in things that can't possibly be right. Some things may appear to have an element of truth to them but really they don't. That's the dangerous thing with belief. Damaging beliefs wouldn't get off the ground if they didn't appear to espouse some kind of truth.

[monel]

This is a deep subject, and the problem is, for some reason I always rush to type out a post and then think about it later. You're right, people do believe extremely toxic stuff and for them to believe it there has to be something they identify as 'true' in it. All I can say is, personally, I wouldn't go for something like, 'Kill the weak, kill your enemies', but I would go for something more humane, and about coping with life without wasting it or feeling like you wasted every opportunity you had.


On the topic of other people's beliefs, though, I find people on extreme ends of any belief system or ideology shield themselves from information that would contradict their beliefs, so they become ever more isolated and extreme in their thinking because the company they keep constantly reinforces the beliefs that they implanted in that person. This is quite like the person I know who won't talk to me anymore- I didn't say anything offensive, but his response was, 'Come back to me when you think like me'.


Then there's certain people who do partially educate themselves on other beliefs, but they train themselves and their 'posse' to be able to knock down arguments for those beliefs, even though they usually only know the most commonly held or even stereotypical viewpoints of those beliefs and the people who follow them.

[endo]

All I can say is, personally, I wouldn't go for something like, 'Kill the weak, kill your enemies', but I would go for something more humane, and about coping with life without wasting it or feeling like you wasted every opportunity you had.

Some people- well, several million- go bananas for that **** though. A couple of mainstream religions that I won't mention, in particular.

On the topic of other people's beliefs, though, I find people on extreme ends of any belief system or ideology shield themselves from information that would contradict their beliefs, so they become ever more isolated and extreme in their thinking because the company they keep constantly reinforces the beliefs that they implanted in that person. This is quite like the person I know who won't talk to me anymore- I didn't say anything offensive, but his response was, 'Come back to me when you think like me'.

Totally agree with you there. Extremist-type thinking tends to attract extremist-type thinking. You're best off out of any association with anyone who thinks you ought to think like they do. IMO, like, I'm not saying you ought to think like me [compulsory disclaimer]. Have you thought about one of our complimentary stress tests?

[monel]

Sign me up for the stress test, please, I get down sometime and whistle when I'm alone. Seriously, though, the world's most popular religions all stress peace and love thy neighbour, whilst also featuring a lot of slaying your enemies, while at the same time stressing forgiveness and understanding. I think in the wrong hands they are used to oppress but in the right hands and with the right teachers they can be used to inspire and improve lives. They're tools and a lot of people who belong to faiths forget that context plays a huge part in the religious texts, but they try and apply certain events to their own lives and the modern world without having any knowledge of the context of those original events, historically speaking.

[Dogg Thang]

Steve Wozniak, the other Steve, always seem like the nicest guy whenever I've seen him interviewed. And the Steve Jobs biography seems to back that up.

But... does anyone else think this seems a little off -> http://signedbywoz.com/jobsbook.php

The site says he doesn't profit from these, which makes me wonder who exactly does and why he'd let them or encourage them (he links to there on his official site). Like, doesn't say anywhere it's going to charity or anything, it says it's a business.

[charlesr]

I guess you have to ask, would it be ok for him to do this in 5 years time? If so, where's the cut-off?

[Dogg Thang]

I don't think he could do it in 5 years time. They're charging $125 plus shipping per book - I think he could only do that right now because of the interest in Jobs that comes directly from his death. The book isn't about Woz, though he is of course mentioned in it. But jumping in there with a special page on this biography at $125 can only be cashing in on the death of an old friend.

To compare, on that site, you can buy an Apple II disk drive signed for $100. That makes much more sense - Woz made the Apple II, the drive is a substantial memento of that computer. That's cool - I was tempted by that (I grew up with an Apple IIe). But charging $25 more for a book about an old friend who just died doesn't seem right to me. And then there is the question of who profits and why. If he doesn't, as the site says, why do it?

[Guts]

Who would know if someone else signed the books in reality? Isn't the point of getting a book signed to meet the author and him/her personally sign your book?

[Charlie]

Is anyone here into getting stuff signed and/or getting peoples autographs? I've never seen the rhyme or reason to it myself but am curious to understand the appeal.

[Dogg Thang]

I have a cigar box autographed by Bruce Boxleitner and a MGS autographed by Kojima and Sulu's autograph somewhere but I guess, now that you mention it, the only times I ever looked at any of them was when I first got them. Wouldn't say I'm into it but something in me still says it's cool. Like, with Wozniak, to have a proper Apple II disk drive that he himself has autographed, the designer of the Apple II computer, I'd say that's pretty cool.