Liverpool 2010/11 Season Thread

[Scythe]

TA please stop going on about squads and spends.

Read this:

http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=137803

For a top four team his spending was shrewd to say the least under the constraints he was under.

He rarely got the signings he wanted in percentage terms - there were many players mentioned that he requested and were never sanctioned rumours include a certain Ronaldo and a variety of others.

He made mistakes yes but so has every other manager from Mr Ferguson on.

[paul]

Its his side you're left with, that's why you're so averaged. What about the other 70 players Rafa brought in ?... You know the likes of Lucas, Josemi, Morientes, Barragan, Paletta, Pacheco, Pennant, Babel, Dossena, Aquilani, Voronin (lol) and a rest of a sorry bunch

Don't give the Bull about no money to spent when you spent hundreds of millions by Rafa alone .

Liverpool fans always go on about Arsenal wage bill, the amount of of Money Man Utd and Chelsea spend, where you're getting those facts and figures from ?,. It's always wrong when it comes to Liverpool, but somehow ok for the other Teams in the Premiership
I feel sorry for Roy, he's inherited complete **** and a mess of a Club from Top to Bottom . Sure its beyond him, but so it would be for most people

You're like a scratched record, and not a good one at that.
I'd suggest Joe Dolce's Shaddapya Face...

[paul]

TA please stop going on about squads and spends.

Read this:

http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=137803

For a top four team his spending was shrewd to say the least under the constraints he was under.

He rarely got the signings he wanted in percentage terms - there were many players mentioned that he requested and were never sanctioned rumours include a certain Ronaldo and a variety of others.

He made mistakes yes but so has every other manager from Mr Ferguson on.

Ronaldo was one of Houllier and Thommo's misses. Apparently the club weren't prepared to go to 12million for the greasy one.

Rafa's near misses due to Parry's general ineptitude were David Villa, David Sila, Simao, and Dani Alves, and Sergio Aguerro all of whom were not as well known at the time.

So who did we get instead? We had to settle for Crouch, Bellamy and Pennant as alternatives to 3 of those.
This is what Rafa was referring to when he was on about not doing things quickly enough. He knew it very well the day after the 2007 Champions League final, and wasn't afraid to say that he board needed to be prepared to back his judgement. He would have been right on each of those players.

Anyway, what's a Spuds fan gonna know about the might reds? Feck all is what.

[nakamura]

You're like a scratched record, and not a good one at that.
I'd suggest Joe Dolce's Shaddapya Face...

And you sir are sounding far worse than that.

TA, you seem to be making the same mistake a lot of people have been so far in the thread recently.

A lot of people seem to be arguing against a point that nobody has actually made.

You are blaming Rafa for leaving an average squad. Fair enough if that is your opinion (even if you back it up by listing a load of players, most of whom have long since gone).

However, the issue at the moment with Liverpool is that they are in the bottom 3.
Being in the bottom 3 is not average.
Being in the bottom 3 is terrible.

The current side is perfoming way below what one would expect even from an average squad. That is the issue at hand, nothing else.

This to be fair is a spot on point. The squad is average, mid table and so on. There is enough quality there to stay up easily, especially with Gerrard and Torres in the side.

It seems to be the Roy has instilled a similar frame of mind and tactics setup that he used at Fulham, yet Liverpool at least boast a few higher class players than them so he shouldn't need to.
Fulham were never expected to achieve a great deal and the cup run was incredible for the club. He seemed to have a little more confidence, possibly due to the lower level of expectation of the fans.
Now at Liverpool he is under so much pressure he looks like a 13 year old boy having his first fumble behind the bike sheds, he knows roughly what to do but cannot rise under the pressure.

Roy is not a poor manager, nor is he a fantastic one. But for one thing, when he took the job in the summer I thought he was barmy. I would easily say it is the toughest job I have ever seen in 20 plus years of football.

[Stoppy2000]

TA please stop going on about squads and spends.

Read this:

http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=137803

For a top four team his spending was shrewd to say the least under the constraints he was under.

He rarely got the signings he wanted in percentage terms - there were many players mentioned that he requested and were never sanctioned rumours include a certain Ronaldo and a variety of others.

He made mistakes yes but so has every other manager from Mr Ferguson on.

So now we are talking about 'rumours' that rafa wanted ronaldo. hmm. It seems to me as if nothing that ever went wrong was anything that could be blamed on rafa. Did Rafa not want Aquilani?? Did he not want Lucas??

[Adrock]

Jesus christ, how much did Lucas cost? I'm sure Spurs wanted Bentley and paid more than Lucas cost. I'm also sure there are other players that didn't come out as well as Benitez would have liked. The same as pretty much any manager. Dos Santos springs to mind, at the moment. As does Jenas.

I'd argue for the lay out Lucas has done an adequate job. He played quite a bit during the season Liverpool finished second. Aquilani is a player nobody can really judge, he was injured for a long while before playing the final games of the season. In my opinion in that short run of games he played well. I still wouldn't dream of passing judgement on him.

I'd also argue Aquilani has shown he has ability in the past during his Roma career.

[Scythe]

Fair play Paul my bad, rushed post and all that.

[Scythe]

@stoppy did I not say he made mistakes?

[Stoppy2000]

Jesus christ, how much did Lucas cost? I'm sure Spurs wanted Bentley and paid more than Lucas cost. I'm also sure there are other players that didn't come out as well as Benitez would have liked. The same as pretty much any manager. Dos Santos springs to mind, at the moment.

I'd argue for the lay out Lucas has done an adequate job. He played quite a bit during the season Liverpool finished second. Aquilani is a player nobody can really judge, he was injured for a long while before playing the final games of the season. In my opinion in that short run of games he played well. I still wouldn't dream of passing judgement on him.

I'd also argue Aquilani has shown he has ability in the past during his Roma career.

Bentley and Dos Santos are perfect examples of squad players though. Bentley has had some important games for Spurs (esp last season when Lennon was injured) and Dos Santos is yet to come good but has mostly been out on loan. Lucas was/is a first choice player who is well below the quality I would associate with Liverpool. Aquilani may be a good player but it was foolish to buy anyone when they are injured so on that basis I can judge him. And my judgment is that he may well be the worst signing of last season.

[Team Andromeda]

However, the issue at the moment with Liverpool is that they are in the bottom 3.
Being in the bottom 3 is not average.
Being in the bottom 3 is terrible

There is no way Liverpool will be in the top 3 come Christmas . If they are, then its time to worry . People do know the pain, forget about being in the Bottom 3 of Premiership, try being in the last 3 of the Football league it's self , and you're not the only one supporting a Club in debt up to its eyeball's. Yet another year you're be with out Champions league , that is only going to make the debt matters worse

I'm not taking any enjoying for Liverpool's debt at all .Seeing Clubs go down is one thing, seeing them fighting for their very survival is quite another (don't take pleasure from that)

For a team who are supposed to be challenging for the Premier League you've pointed out players who were all cheaper than £10mil apart from Babel and Aquilani. Now, when you look at the spending on the kinds of players United and Chelsea now have on their bench you'll understand why the club are behind. I have chosen United and Chelsea because they are by far and above the two most consistent teams in the league, with Man City now maybe making a challenge.

Rafa bought in a whole host of Average players , and Liverpool have spent big. Weren't you the 3rd Highest net spenders in the Premiership for the whole time of Rafa
You have spend big on the likes of Babel, Aquilani, Keane, (only for them to stay on the Bench) Johnson, Torres, Kuyt, Mascherano


Yet your current squad lacks the quality of Arsenal and in my view isn't up there with Spurs. Fair enough you can't outspend Chelsea (though I guess Chelsea true spending could also be open to question), but you've spent more or the same as Arsenal or Spurs, and they seem to me to have the brighter future, moving forward going places and a better Squad. I don't like what the Americans have done, but I also blame Rafa because your squad if full of players that are not just up to the Job, a lack of game winners and quality strikers on your bench.

To me the current Liverpool squad is the worst it's been since ****ness totally ****ed up Liverpool, and a lot of is the fault of Rafa

[Team Andromeda]

So now we are talking about 'rumours' that rafa wanted ronaldo. hmm. It seems to me as if nothing that ever went wrong was anything that could be blamed on rafa. Did Rafa not want Aquilani?? Did he not want Lucas??

Yep rumours. People can't comment on Liverpool spending because all the facts are wrong and made up by the Press. but somehow all the Man-Utd and Chelsea season spending is bang on, and always used for how Liverpool can't complete.

Where are the Liverpool fans getting their Chelsea, Man Utd , Arsenal spending and wage bills from, that so right and correct, but so wrong for Liverpool?

[Scythe]

Ok then changing it around for the people who doubt rafas record is there anything you think he did right or well during his tenure? (no need to mention 2005)

[SharkSkin-Man]

There is no way Liverpool will be in the bottom 3 come Christmas . If they are, then its time to worry .

We will need some real improvement if we are to pull more than a handful of points away from there by Christmas, it's not that far away.
It's not just the results, but the way in which they are coming about that is most scary - even the home win against West Brom was poor and I think we were fortunate to get 3 points.

So now we are talking about 'rumours' that rafa wanted ronaldo. hmm.

That was a mistake/typo by Scythe I believe.
There was a chance to buy Ronaldo for £4m from Sporting when Houllier was in charge though, but the club decided against it as he just turned 18 and the outlay was seen as too great.

Where are the Liverpool fans getting their Chelsea, Man Utd , Arsenal spending and wage bills from, that so right and correct, but so wrong for Liverpool?

For wages there isn't really too much room for debate, as Deloitte produce an annual report listing wages by club.

Transfer fees you have to do some real digging to get even close to the truth for any club, and I don't think you can ever be 100% accurate because of the non-disclosed nature of many deals.

They annoyance (for me at least) comes from the way these figures are used by some of the not so good journalists, for all clubs, not just Liverpool. Using essentially meaningless gross figures, rather than net figures being the biggest one.


On this subject there is a very interesting sounding book being released in November called Pay as You Play - comparing the spending of all 43 clubs to have played in the Premier League from 1992 - 2010.

[Nu-Eclipse]

Breaking News...and this was just on Sky News a very short time ago...

[Adrock]

I really really hope the bank just turns around and tells them they either pay back in full or they will be taking the club over.

That would at least force them to look at the interested parties again.