Shadow of the Colossus

[spagmasterswift]

I was trying to grab a dove last night but no joy - I wasn't jumping though so looks like I'll need to have another go at that. Also spent a while climbing up teh green walls around the back. Got to a ledge halfway up but couldnt get back onto the green to continue once my grip had returned - if I can just balance on the edge I should be able to continue. Anybody got up there yet?

[SuperBeatBoy]

i mentioned about this in a previous post. i did it by accident, how do you stand on the horse anyway, ive also noticed on some footage of wander sliding to agro's side.

[dc-arena]

I was trying to grab a dove last night but no joy - I wasn't jumping though so looks like I'll need to have another go at that. Also spent a while climbing up teh green walls around the back. Got to a ledge halfway up but couldnt get back onto the green to continue once my grip had returned - if I can just balance on the edge I should be able to continue. Anybody got up there yet?

Yup.. Its been discussed quite heavily waaay back in the thread when it came out in USA and Japan. I took some pics up there

[spagmasterswift]

Very nice!

[Concept]

Yeah, the views you're able to get up there are really quite something special.

[Concept]

Thats what i started. Or at least i did to the cart, then played a bit of Hard SotC, and going back now for some more ICO.

Partly i wanted to check the graphic differences (re: SotC thread), and yeah ICO looks much more low-res when blown to 7 foot; pixellation, text a bit dodgy, still very atmospheric. SotC's text looks smooth, but slight pixellation about Agro's legs, however overall fantastic.

Both games offer technical strengths over the other. On the one hand, like you say the resolution and overall draw-distance/polygonal amounts, and methods of streaming in Colossus far surpass those of ICO. On the other, ICO handles its level of detail transference less noticeably and the lighting is more subtle (in my opinion).

Both play so differently, and are excellent for their own merits. However i cant help but agree with the sentiments that it could have done with a bit more platforming. Especially after the first Colossi where you have to climb up a bit of cliff, i thought it implied things to come. That second idea would have been classy though, and more power is what the sequel needs.

I know what you mean. Colossus would have perhaps benefitted from more parts which gradually you lead you into the colossi

->Open Spoiler<-

(such as in numbers 1, 3, 8)

. The part where I thought the platforming/climbing was intelligently integrated into a fight with a colossi

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was number 15, which although scripted, proved excellent in how it had you traversing over the entire town trying to escape and lure it closer to destroying its armour.

Also i've found more little touches; Agro wandered off to get a drink of water as i was pissing about with trees, he has a drink, then shakes his head as if drying himself off. I also swear i saw him chasing some birds! If you leave you PS2 alone for a while you get a demo of him just running about (no wanderer). Found some turtles, they dont do anything do they?

Not that I know of. I've also seen Agro eating glass over at the Southern Coastline if you leave him - the ambience and quality of the scenery there must attract his sense of apetite more.

[Concept]

I would have like a few more platforming bits to the game that offered nothing but the thrill of the climb and kickass view, so far I?ve only found few, one being in the a forest north west of the Tower, there nice bit with a lake below which I thought was inaccessible with a tree over hanging the cliff with fruit on it, which would fall below if shot, I looked around and found a moss ?ladder? to use to get down, and to my surprise the lake was just a couple of feet high swamp, lovely little find.

I remember that part.

I love the shape of the tree there... On the way to the first colossi, there's also a ledge up high you can turn around to face the main field that offers quite a view. Another good spot is on the way to colossi 5 where you can see an entire canyon and waterfall a few hundred feet below. If you position yourself correctly in that area, it's possible to take in near half the view of the world (the bridge, pathways, fields, canyons, almost everything).

Of course

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it gets even better if you can make your way up to the temple's bridge.

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Liked the ending to, had that grim fairly tail ending. I had feeling that killing the Colossus was wrong, especially after the second ?cow? colossus, it just looked so harmless, but I soon forgot that during the fight after the great music kicks in after you climb up on top of it, and it son back after felling the great beast.

I felt guilty with that one too. Poor thing.

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And that feeling certainly came true, the colossus we?re trying to stop me releasing the dormin full power and wander?s selfishness ignored the glaring evil spewing from the dead colossus, took me a while to spot wander?s change in looks to. Seems obvious this is a prequel to Ico, as this seem?s to the start of the Cursed Children (horned kids), that will someday hundreds of year?s from SofC be used by the Queen to make Dormin, and while Wander won?t atone for his sin?s in his life time, we all know Ico atones for his Ancestor?s sins. I hope they make another different game that links the time period between SofC and Ico, the story is to interesting to leave alone.

I think that may be the case if the team return to the same world. I remember someone mentioning they'd like to see what happens next to Ico, but I wouldn't personally like that myself.

A game set

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in the past, a game set in the present and a game set in the future may be a good way to wrap it up, with each of them being disconnected as separate stories, but tied into a larger picture. One of the things which makes me think that SotC takes place well before ICO is that the Wanda's clothes look older/less modern compared to ICO's, and the architecture, while maintaining the same style and inscriptions as ICO, comes across as more Aztec than European. It's as though SotC is happening in a distant part of ICO's world, or a neighbouring country from the past.

[Concept]

Oh. My. God! I have just discovered something on SOTC that I can't seem to find in any thread if you creep up to the altar where Mono lies and then jump and grab (Triangle and R1) into the flock of birds sitting on the steps something astonishing will happen if you get it right...

You will hook onto the birds feet and it will fly you around for a short while before losing altitude - I managed to fly out of the main window towards the plain before it lost altitude and plonked me back down to earth. Maybe one of you fine fellow can hook onto the hawk that follows you and Agro... 8)

Yeah, you can also do that with hawks when they occasionally fly over the altars and grip on to them (I think Zed asked about this - it's a little random, but they eventually fly ahead if you wait a while at certain altars, that's what happened for me).

They take you further than the doves around Mono (and elsewhere), but eventually your weight pulls them to the ground. The same can be done with fish underwater.

When you think about there are actually quite a different number of creature types in the main game than on first glance.

Humans. Horses. Lizards. Turtles. Doves. Seagulls. Hawks. Bats. Fish. and

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the squirel/deer at the end.

[Moodmon]

Have to say I found the game a bit underwhelming. It's decent, but I think people gloss over the awful, hideous camera, which can really get on your tits at times. Same with some of the controls, there is a lack of sharpness that I would expect to be there (getting on Agro, even via a jump, can be a fiddly and annoying experience, especially if in a hurry).

About some of the colossi

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Right, so it's a game with 16 bosses. And they repeat one. The most annoying one (the bull thing). Which moron thought that was a good idea. Helped slightly by the fact the latter had some proper climbing/platforming in it, but still. The roll is a bit fiddly, you can hold R1 and the direction, and move in an unintended one (same for jumps off a grab).

Had to get help for two of the bosses. First was the water thing, with the shrines and the lasers and the death. How the hell are you supposed to realise that you have to hit the stones to move the thing? More importantly, how does "You cannot hurt it in your current state" or whatever help you in any way? I was looking to somehow elec-charge myself up >_<

Last colossus I had the same trouble as everyone else did. Nearly did it the hard way, but got shaken off despite having some stamina left. Meh

I'm just left feeling a little underwhelmed. Last one apart, all the colossi seemed a bit small. I wanted ones as tall as the shrine. I've seen mid-bosses in same games bigger than some of these stone freaks.

Shame, the game is a good idea, and some of the ideas are excellent. But the excecution in too many areas just seems to be a bit lacking. For me, anyway.

[cohen205]

I noticed something for all of you that fancy grabbing onto a hawk.

I noticed on one of the shrines that the hawk's nest is right at the top, so if you stay there he will come right to you. you have to wait for a couple of minutes for him come to you though.

Also, i only tried this with one shrine, so im not sure if it's the same for all of them.

The shrine i was on was the one close the the huge bridge, not far from the altar you begin at. (sorry i cant be more specific)

[nero1001]

Have to say I found the game a bit underwhelming. It's decent, but I think people gloss over the awful, hideous camera, which can really get on your tits at times. Same with some of the controls, there is a lack of sharpness that I would expect to be there (getting on Agro, even via a jump, can be a fiddly and annoying experience, especially if in a hurry).

About some of the colossi

->Open Spoiler<-

Right, so it's a game with 16 bosses. And they repeat one. The most annoying one (the bull thing). Which moron thought that was a good idea. Helped slightly by the fact the latter had some proper climbing/platforming in it, but still. The roll is a bit fiddly, you can hold R1 and the direction, and move in an unintended one (same for jumps off a grab).

Had to get help for two of the bosses. First was the water thing, with the shrines and the lasers and the death. How the hell are you supposed to realise that you have to hit the stones to move the thing?

Last colossus I had the same trouble as everyone else did. Nearly did it the hard way, but got shaken off despite having some stamina left. Meh

I'm just left feeling a little underwhelmed. Last one apart, all the colossi seemed a bit small. I wanted ones as tall as the shrine. I've seen mid-bosses in same games bigger than some of these stone freaks.

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The rocks on his head are the same colour as the weak spots and also other targeted areas on other colossi, the salamander`s legs for example. Hitting the rocks reminded me of the Loch Ness Monster type fella in Mario 64 where you had to steer him too.

Fair comments Moodmon, each to their own I suppose but, the PS2 is about 6 years old and I think what we ended up with on SotC was about as good as it was going to be without the game appearing on the 360 or PS3.

Agreed, the camera is at times god awful and I`ve come close to smashing up a control pad because of it, something I haven`t done since I was a teenager.

I though that the majority of colossi were big enough with of course the exception of the Bull and a couple of others, but they were still fun to fight. It did piss me off on the Bull stage though when you get down the side of the pillars with the flame on it and the camera went all ****ed up. I`ve also suffered getting trampled on and worse for the fact that I couldn`t jump on Agro in a hurry. All extremely annoying but forgiven.

There are loads of obvious problems with SotC but I loved the game. For me an improvement would`ve been (barring the glitches) more platform bits and more colossi. There aren`t many games out there that make me want to replay them, I normally finish them and shelve them, but with SotC I`m still enjoying it and I`m currently giving time attack a bashing.

SotC is more than just "look there`s a colossus I`m gonna kill you"! It is the whole experience that makes the game, not just the combat. The parts inbetween colossi can be as enjoyable and rewarding as you want them to be and there is a very diffinate mood set throughout the game that you can feel yourself being affected by. My favourite games all involve killing things and I`ve never given a **** who I`ve ended but SotC is the 1st game I`ve ever played that actually made me think about why I`m doing it.

9/10 for me 8)

[Darwock]

I agree that it really gets you emotionally involved in proceedings, all the people who have rated it as average always seem to focus on the technical aspects, I think it's just a thing with some people that it doesn't grab their imagination the same way it does for people who love it.

Incidentally I've always felt pangs of guilt for shooting guards in the nuts in MGS (but I still do it). SotC does evoke similar feelings though, I always think of harpooning whales. It just seems wrong.

[Dogg Thang]

Fair comments Moodmon, each to their own I suppose but, the PS2 is about 6 years old and I think what we ended up with on SotC was about as good as it was going to be without the game appearing on the 360 or PS3.

While I personally think that the flaws Moodman bring up don't affect the game enough to detract from the experience too much - I don't agree that the age of the console has much to do with it. Framerate, yes, though I never really had a problem with that. But there is no reason why camera and control can't be better on the PS2, no reason whatsoever.

I think his criticisms are entirely valid.

But I also think that everything else the game offers more than makes up for it. I think it's a beautiful experience from start to finish and the odd jumping backwards problem is merely a ripple in an otherwise stunning lake. If that makes any sense...

Edit: Oh, just to respond to Darwock - I agree with what you have just said although, in the case of some of the control issues, having problems with the technical control can remove you somewhat from the game experience and so cut that emotional attachment. When you have to think about what you are doing with the controller, it suddenly makes you aware that it is simply a game. But, like I said, I don't think these things detract from the experience too much at all.

[nero1001]

I always think of harpooning whales. It just seems wrong.

I believe that in Japan when the Revolution is released, there`s going to be a whaling game where you use the wand to simulate throwing a harpoon

[spagmasterswift]

People wanted more platforming? I thought there was plenty considering the amount of climbing you end up doing facing off against the many Colossus.

All the open spaces just make the rare moments when you enter a new structure that more special. Going underground for the first time

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while your foe is stamping the earth above you filling the tunnel with dust and debris

was fantastic. There was just enough climbing over blocks and running up grand staircases for me to feel I was on a quest, following a destined pathway.

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Yet by returning you to the chamber each time you are being told over and over again where your true destiny lies.

I had no problem with the camera at all, in fact the beautiful landscape demands that you master the right analogue stick right from the start so as not to miss any of the views. Spinning it around you while you gallop across a bridge or zooming it in right in front of you as the hawks gather - its all very Wind Waker!

Getting onto 'Pedro' during some of the games more hairy moments did cause some frustration - but this was born out of laziness on my part, all I had to do was tweak the view so I could see if I was trying to mount him in the wrong place - so to speak...