Dead or Alive 4

[smokedog]

Agree with Kotatsu Neko. But its not a case that's it hard, more a case of unbalanced. The AI can counter every move, depending on how lucky or unlucky you are. Some of the fights are down to luck of the draw.

[Keith]

"Pussy gamers need not apply"?

Wow, wouldn't it be great if every games company took that stance? I don't think we'd have much of an industry to enjoy.

As I'm sure has been said; varying difficulty levels can't take much to implement, and while the difficulty hasn't put me off (probably because after finishing all of the story modes, I've not really fought against the AI), it's clearly a factor in people's enjoyment. It would have no effect on any of the "non-pussy" gamers at all if there were an easy mode - they simply wouldn't have to touch it.

[Akira]

That kind of attitude really is irritating. It just reeks of arrogance, of 'I'm a great gamer and you're not'. I can imagine it's exactly how Itagaki felt when tuning the game.

None of us on this board are casual or novice players, but for us to be finding it tough has to tell you something. It's too hard, simple as that. Games should be enjoyable by all players, not just an elite few. Can you imagine how a casual gamer will feel when playing DOA4? I can tell you, he'll be pissed off and will take the game back to the store the next day, and tell all his mates not to bother buying it.

All it would take is for the AI to adapt to a player's skill. Not difficult.

No,no,no.Why can't the gamer adapt to the AI? and it's not me being arrogant,and saying i'm a better gamer than you.It's just that i've got more incentive to sit down and try and learn how the game works,instead of just giving in and claiming that the AI is cheap,which it is'nt.At first,yea the game handed me my ass on a plate,but i did'nt sit there and say "OH MAN,this AI is seriously cheap,this is really badly designed" No i decided to try and combat this challenge,and i've managed that with tips i mentioned earlier.Now if you think that makes me a better gamer than you,then that's your opinion.

It's funny how the same thing was true in regards to Ninja Gaiden.I never found the game to be that hard,but there were people out there crying that this game was too cheap and damn near impossible.One thing NG is'nt,is cheap! it's one of the fairest,most challenging games i've ever had the pleasure of playing.But because of all the people who just gave in,because it may take more than a few goes to beat murai(the 1st boss!)Itagaki and TN were kind enough to offer them another go at it with NGB's ninja dog mode,which by the way,did'nt make the enemie's easier,just made ryu stronger.

The same is true of DOA4.It's a challenge that some people just don't want to accept.But don't sit there and accuse people of being arrogant,because they've put in the time to find ways of competing against the challenging AI.I've told you how i've managed to deal with it,so the least you can do is go back and try and see what the results are.I think it's a case of,too much like hard work.People would rather have their hand held.

But it's much more rewarding,when you learn how to defeat them with this kind of challenge than it is when they are'nt reacting to your moves.Put the time in to learn each characters quirks and i guarantee you'll appreciate it so much more when they fall by your hand.

But i'm sure the more people complain,the more inclined Itagaki will be to release an easy difficulty akin to NG.Although i don't agree with it and i'm sure he does'nt either.He's said it time and time again.Team Ninja games are designed in a way that HE finds enjoyable.

'Spose it is a case of,don't like it and you are'nt willing to learn,don't bother.

[Keith]

That doesn't change the fact that an easier difficulty wouldn't have done anyone any harm. As for having more incentive to sit down and figure out how the game works; in a perfect World, we'd all have the time and patience for that. If every game adopted this "games aren't for pussies" mantra, and forced people to endure hours of learning before they started to have fun with the games, then I know I'd have to find another hobby.

I agree with your views on NG; much like DMC3, when you die, you know it was your fault. But that's a different genre entirely; if you want a game you can "pick up and play" (DoA4 is, after all, an arcade fighter), then you should be able to do just that. There really ought to be something for people who haven't the time, nor the inclination to "learn all of the characters quirks", and it wouldn't have taken more than a few lines of code to put it in there.

'Spose it is a case of,don't like it and you are'nt willing to learn,don't bother.

And if you do like it but aren't good enough to beat the AI, no matter how much you try to learn? Then what? You should **** off for being ****?

[Akira]

And if you do like it but aren't good enough to beat the AI, no matter how much you try to learn? Then what? You should **** off for being ****?

Play with friends,play online or try some sparring.

Listen,this is no different to how VF is.It can take you years to fully master one single character.Now DOA4 is not at VF levels of depth but the same rules apply.You wanna get the most out of the game,put the time in to learn.

DOA4 is'nt the DOA of old,thats the whole point.It's alot more challenging and in some people's opinion's,unfair(NOT mine).

Here is the interview i was referring to with milky-san and itagaki-san.Seems to shine a little light on some of these issue's.

[MartyG edit - copy/paste removed due to 'Copyright ? 2002-2005 Ziff Davis Media Inc. All Rights Reserved. 1UP and the 1UP.COM logo are a trademark of Ziff Davis Publishing Holdings Inc. Reproduction in whole or in part in any form or medium without express written permission of Ziff Davis Media Inc. is prohibited'. Please use this link instead]

[mr_sockochris]

I think I've got the hang of the final boss now. It's simply a case of finding something cheap that will knock her down and doing it over and over as she gets up each time. When she gets near a wall she will always teleport behind you, at which point start the longest combo you can do. More often than not she teleports right into the last few hits of the combo allowing you to continue with your cheap knockdown move over and over. If she does attack it's usually that spin kick which can be countered with > + F very easily.

Managed to beat her first time with Leon and the Spartan this way, something that used to take me 30 attempts

[Keith]

Play with friends,play online or try some sparring.

And if you've no friends, and you don't have Xbox Live? (Trying sparring wouldn't work if "couldn't beat the AI no matter how much you tried to learn", after all. )

You do come accross as if an "easy" mode would be to the game's detriment, and I genuinely don't understand why, which is why I ask.

[MikeF]

I don't see the problem with the game having an easy mode, doesn't mean you have to use it

[Keith]

Precisely; I wouldn't be using it, but it just seems strange to purposely alienate people.

[Mardigan8]

EXACTLY, simply putting it in there as an option doesn't take anything away from the game. People dont play through Story mode continuosly to learn the game, they do so to see the beautifully constructed movies and unlock costumes for online play, an easy setting would have facilitated this perfectly but instead quite a few people are alienated from achieving these things.

And the AI doesn't "learn" the moves you make, lets not forget it knows every ****ing move we do before it is carried out so if it wants it can reverse the whole lot, which it often does. I have beat the Story mode with all characters but it was a chore, not enjoyable. The fun comes from time attacks, survival and live play... simply putting an easy option in there would have solved all these complaints without taking anything away from the game.

I love the game and final boss aside enjoy every fight, even the frustrating ones where the AI reverses everything. It dont matter how much you mix up your attacks, the AI can react to everything you do so if it wants to reverse you, no matter low, mid or high attack it will do it.

The game can be as hardcore as it wants with difficult settings but why make it strictly hardcore? Can anyone answer that? It doesn't enhance the game, just prevents many gamers from enjoying it as much as they should!!

[MartyG]

It doesn't enhance the game, just prevents many gamers from enjoying it as much as they should!!

Quite - just because an easy mode is there doesn't mean it has to be used. Not everyone has or wants to put in hours of time into a game to 'learn' it; having played DOA4 for the first time the amount of continues I used was just stupid. If a game is highly frustrating it gives no incentive to keep playing it, games should be fun, not a chore.

[dvdx2]

The way i look at it, any game that makes you repeat something 3-4 times, has`nt been playtested or quality control checked properly. Games are supposed to fun and challenging. I think this game frustrates more than any thing and i love fighting games. I cant see how wee Davy causal gamer is going to even be able to get past the first few stages of this!

[Mardigan8]

Quite - just because an easy mode is there doesn't mean it has to be used. Not everyone has or wants to put in hours of time into a game to 'learn' it; having played DOA4 for the first time the amount of continues I used was just stupid. If a game is highly frustrating it gives no incentive to keep playing it, games should be fun, not a chore.

Hear, Hear... simple providing the option aint too much to ask... I think that is why it is called an "option" just flat out not providing it is a poor show.

[MonkeyWrench]

I've completed the game with over half the characters so far and I've only had to continue a few times to clear any troublesome opponents, which I feel is normal considering I'm not DOA expert. Though I do agree there are some elements of cheapness about it, but hey...if players wanted to breeze through the game without losing then they could have just replaced your opponents with retarded sideshow circus chimps, but where's the fun in bashing a disabled ape?

[Mardigan8]

The fun is that battering easier opponents may be the level many players need to start at to get better at the game. Constantly getting pounded aint gonna teach a player anything but it will mkae them not play the game. The game should cater for all abilities and it doesn't, instead saying if you cant learn from THIS starting point then your ****ed, which aint right.

I aint speaking for myself as I have coped with the normal setting and have moved forward but as someone who has been able to work with the current AI I feel the game should provide the option of an easier starting point for many players, especially those new to DOA. Then they can build up to the higher "harcore" settings. Its all about options and sadly DOA4 doesn't provide them, that is the discussion here.