The Orange Box (PC/PS3/360)

[dogen]

Heavenly sword only has it in the [pre rendered] cutscenes though?

Hm. Then I agree with you.

[Brats]

Did the game not hit a note when you first got off of the train and take in the desperate situation of some of the people like the lady looking for her huband? What about the intimidating nature of the Combine? What about looking through the door at the hostage the Combine had only to be pushed away and the door slammed shut. What about the guard trying to intimidate you into picking up the rubbish.

The beginning is brilliant. As far as scene setting and atmosphere go, yes it is 10/10 material. That's not the problem.

The great personality of Father Grigori and his defence of you as you escape. Alyx's feelings for you and her naivety. The plight of the people in the block who you bypass while looking for an escape route. The fun with Dog. The zombie in the incinerator which I pained over whether to throw the switch or not. The mystery of the G-Man.

Father Grigori is a stereotypical Eastern European - hardly a great personality unless your benchmark is very low. The other stuff is mostly great - that makes up about 5% of the game. A lot more of the game is spent wandering through dull sewers, driving your airboat or buggy with hardly any risk for ages at a time, shooting dull zombies in Ravenholme, picking up objects to balance a see-saw. That's the stuff I am less than happy about.

The list of quality in the setting, story and characterisation is lenghty and I'm quite amazed that some people don't see it or appreciate it. The game has negatives as does any game but its mind boggling that these things are touted as some of them.

Wrong. No-one has ever said the setting or characters are anything other than excellent. We have said the plot is basic, the actions of the NPCs is not believable (which spoils the characterisation) and that Gordon has no motivation.

Maybe we all need to have big Americans in big suits firing big guns nowadays to get the point.

The point isn't lost - it's just badly delivered.

[Dezm0nd]

Much of the outdoors bits don't really feel outdoors.

Play Episode 2 please

[vanpeebles]

Father Grigori is a stereotypical Eastern European - hardly a great personality unless your benchmark is very low. The other stuff is mostly great - that makes up about 5% of the game.

I've hung men for a lot less than this. The Father is a legend, the fact he has a fancy Winchester, constantly uses the term Brother and loves to address his monster town as tending to his flock. Superb stuff.

Its scandalous the amount of boring hot air and waffle in this thread over a collection of 5 superb games than can be had for around 20 to 25 quid. Theres plenty of truely awful games about to winge and blab about. The Orange is NOT one of them!

[Brats]

You are criticising the game for funnelling you along when this is clearly what its meant to do. Its part of the design. Its a bit like buying a tank top and not liking it because it doesn't have sleeves.

That's an argument? That's like saying I can't criticise Feeding Frenzy because it was designed to be a basic casual game with little challenge. There are FPS that hide the linearity or deal with it much better than HL2. That's completely fair game for criticism.

The physics and linearity were always secondary to the story, atmosphere and characters and Valve would probably even say that themselves. At the time it experimented with and achieved some success with new mechanics but these were never the strong or best things about the game.

But they are what you spend 95% of you spend your time doing. The 'story' parts of the game are few and far between after the opening section. You spend more time on your own than with any of the characters. If the action parts of the game were very much a secondary thing like they are in say KOTOR then I'd say fair enough. But they aren't. HL2 is very much a shooter with sections of story interpersing it. It isn't a story based game with bits of action interspering it.

When I arrived at Black Mesa East the first time after the lengthy Route Kanal and Water Hazard sections, I was pleased to have a break from the dull action for a while. But it was so short lived. I talked to Eli for a bit, looked at some noticeboards, metup with Alyx and the gravity gun, played with Dog for a minute and then....boom!....gunship arrives and I'm forced to go to Ravenholme and shoot boring zombies. Great.

[Brats]

I've hung men for a lot less than this. The Father is a legend, the fact he has a fancy Winchester, constantly uses the term Brother and loves to address his monster town as tending to his flock. Superb stuff.

Yeah sounds great . I don't think William Goldman will be losing any sleep.....

[rmoxon]

shooting dull zombies in Ravenholme,

Surley there has never been such a thing "as shooting a dull zombie"???... zombies ARE NOT arent dull and shooting them deffinitley isnt. This is the most blasphermous thing I have ever read in my life....

The fact that HL2's zombies look like they have chickens on their heads makes them even cooler still.....

[analog dog]

I've hung men for a lot less than this. The Father is a legend, the fact he has a fancy Winchester, constantly uses the term Brother and loves to address his monster town as tending to his flock. Superb stuff.

Its scandalous the amount of boring hot air and waffle in this thread over a collection of 5 superb games than can be had for around 20 to 25 quid. Theres plenty of truely awful games about to winge and blab about. The Orange is NOT one of them!

****ing Amen to that brother!

[B1gBeard]

Wrong. No-one has ever said the setting or characters are anything other than excellent. We have said the plot is basic, the actions of the NPCs is not believable (which spoils the characterisation) and that Gordon has no motivation.



The point isn't lost - it's just badly delivered.

In comparison to what? Halo 3? The Darkness? Gears? Your criticisms could be laid far more heavily at the door of these games.

I found Gordon's motivations quite obvious between his need to find out what the G-Man is up to coupled with his need to see the rights of everyone to prevail. Throw Alyx in and I can't see what more motivation the man needs.

[rmoxon]

I agree... Maybe he needs Alyx to wear a more revealing outfit to be motivated?

[Brats]

Surley there has never been such a thing "as shooting a dull zombie"???... zombies ARE NOT arent dull and shooting them deffinitley isnt. This is the most blasphermous thing I have ever read in my life....

The fact that HL2's zombies look like they have chickens on their heads makes them even cooler still.....

There are millions of games with zombies. Not all zombies are created equal, especially when they they pose zero threat. The chicken head zombies are sooo slow as to render them simply as cannon fodder. The super zombies are better, but their attack patterms are too predictable.

The Combine are much more interesting to fight. Decent AI >>>>>> Chicken head zombies any day of the week.

[B1gBeard]

Yeah sounds great . I don't think William Goldman will be losing any sleep.....

And yet you seemed to not criticise Halo 3's stereo-typical Americans and shocking dialogue.

[B1gBeard]

There are millions of games with zombies. Not all zombies are created equal, especially when they they pose zero threat. The chicken head zombies are sooo slow as to render them simply as cannon fodder. The super zombies are better, but their attack patterms are too predictable.

The Combine are much more interesting to fight. Decent AI >>>>>> Chicken head zombies any day of the week.

Is that the point again though. Fighting zombies generally involves blowing heads off whether its from Romero or Capcom. Like RE the zombies don't seem to be there to create a challenge but more to evoke feelings of disgust, pity etc.

Thats how it feels for me anyway. I guess we are all just coming from completely different angles here.

[EvilBoris]

That reminds me to take a trip into the Mario Kart thread and comment on how the handling in Gran Turismo is better.

Also is the entire of city 17 populated by Lab Technicians and Deli counter workers?

[Brats]

In comparison to what? Halo 3? The Darkness? Gears? Your criticisms could be laid far more heavily at the door of these games.

You're completely right, but these games don't strive for a decent story - they thrive in their combat (except the Darkness which was poo imo). As you say yourself, a lot of HL2 is meant to be secondary to the story.

I found Gordon's motivations quite obvious between his need to find out what the G-Man is up to coupled with his need to see the rights of everyone to prevail. Throw Alyx in and I can't see what more motivation the man needs.

But why would him joining the resistance help him find out what the G-Man is up to or answer any of those questions? As discussed in the other thread (so I'm not going into masses of detail here) he's awoken after years of stasis and dumped into a completely changed world with no mission, no background, no idea of what has happened, no idea of whether the G-Man is good or evil and yet he seems to know exactly where to go and what to do. That's good storytelling?????