Nintendo Wii U (Thread 2!)

[gIzzE]

It's not an opinion though.

Why is it there?

What if your display doesn't do limited RGB?
Say you are using a DVI port that will only take a pc level?
You need FULL RGB then.

I just think saying that the Wii U doesn't have full rgb may confuse and concern people for absolutely no reason. I doubt many people these days have a flat panel display capable of showing 1080 that won't do limited properly.


You keep going on about there is info missing between 0-15 on the signal. It should be missing, you are not meant to see that.
If you can your screen is not calibrated correctly. Hence why it is called blacker than black.
You keep saying that blacks will look grey, they won't, I have seen a few 360s in Full mode on a TV that won't take it and it crushes detail like mad, not a good thing. I think that it is far better to have all consoles and displays set to limited, less confusion, most people don't really know what it is about anyway, so can only do harm.

What display are you using?
I am using a Pioneer 9g Kuro and a Panasonic commercial plasma and I can't see any difference between the two, even with reference video material.

[MisterBubbles]

The best person to ask and tell us on this is Lyris. gIzzE are you doing a Shozuki with my 65 is bigger and better than yours? With your Pioneer 9g Kuro and a Panasonic commercial plasma, is there real snobbery coming into the forum cause not everybody has 2K to blow on a TV?

[Brad]

If your console and TV are both set to Full RGB then your tv can, theoretically, show you a wider range of colours. This is a fact.
If your console is set to Full RGB and your TV set to limited your console might output some dark shadowy textures that your tv interprets as all black i.e. not detail. Again, a fact.
If your console is set to limited RGB but your TV expects Full RGB then it'll never receive zero values for colours so blacks will come out as greys.

So, the only questions are:

1. When a videogame (let's ignore movies and TV) is being rendered by a console, does it use the full range of colours available to it?
2. Can a human being tell the difference between 250+ levels of colour and only 216?

I suspect the answer to 1 is yes due to Dynamic lighting etc. I don't know the answer to 2 though and I believe the jury is still out. Up to 10 million colours is a common number bandied around by scientific sorts in which case 216 levels is enough.

Please correct me if any of my claimed facts are wrong!

[gIzzE]

The best person to ask and tell us on this is Lyris. gIzzE are you doing a Shozuki with my 65 is bigger and better than yours? With your Pioneer 9g Kuro and a Panasonic commercial plasma, is there real snobbery coming into the forum cause not everybody has 2K to blow on a TV?

No, not at all.
But they are both regarded as good displays that will highlight differences, and both are ISF'd, and you can not tell a difference on those.

Buy the way, I just sold a Panny PHD8 50" for ?250 and I bought this Pioneer for ?600, so hardly any snobbery.
They are now cheap displays, just happens that they are also very good, reference displays.

And, he keeps banging on about the fact that the Wii U 'looses the detail between 0-15' and that because there is no full rgb it will look washed out, black will look grey.
That simply isn't true and therefore stop saying it on a forum where people might think it is, and think it is a major issue.

[speedlolita]

Just plug it in via composite and you're golden.

[gIzzE]

Just plug it in via composite and you're golden.

Exactly, and if Nintendo's video output is anything like the past you probably won't even notice the difference.

[EvilBoris]

Does it support deep color?.......


*thread explodes*

[sj33]

The lack of Full RGB mode shouldn't actually make a difference with TVs because TVs should be expecting a limited RGB colour range (though may also support full RGB range and the benefits that can bring). On a practical level, the lack of full RGB support will primarily affect people using PC monitors as their main screen (not an unreasonable thing to do, they are often as big as TVs these days, support higher resolutions, are cheaper and do not require a TV Licence payment) - the WiiU will look washed on any display expecting a full RGB input i.e. PC monitors.It would just be a nice feature to see included, especially when both the PS3 and 360 support this. Hopefully Nintendo will include this in a newer firmware update.

[originalbadboy]

No, not at all.
But they are both regarded as good displays that will highlight differences, and both are ISF'd, and you can not tell a difference on those.

Buy the way, I just sold a Panny PHD8 50" for ?250 and I bought this Pioneer for ?600, so hardly any snobbery.
They are now cheap displays, just happens that they are also very good, reference displays.

And, he keeps banging on about the fact that the Wii U 'looses the detail between 0-15' and that because there is no full rgb it will look washed out, black will look grey.
That simply isn't true and therefore stop saying it on a forum where people might think it is, and think it is a major issue.

Look you have your opinion I have mine, regardless of what I say its not going to stop people buying a WiiU , stop being so petty about it. I have already said that its not a major deal breaker even for me, its just something that I would like to see supported that's all. It's a 'nice to have' not an absolute essential, but seeing other consoles support it, so should the WiiU

If it gets supported in to the future then I will be a happy bunny .. Just drop it now ffs ... I wish I hadn't even bought it up!

[EvilBoris]

I'd imagine almost any screen with an HDMi socket would be able to tell the difference anyway

[85 78 73 81 85 69]

Can't believe this is still going on as if there is something to discuss.

It's not an opinion though.

And that there is exactly the point. Reference levels are just that, levels of reference and like any benchmarks they are absolutes that don't change irrelevant of what people believe their eyes are telling them. If they weren't absolutes they would have no value as reference levels. It's not opinion, it's fact.

if people feelthey are getting crushed blacks or a washed out image that isn't because full or limited RGB is being used as absolute white and absolute black will always be absolute white and absolute black.

There is also another set of reference levels where absolute white is 903 and absolute black is 76372, you've probably not heard of it as I just made it up! Irrelevant of which numbers I've labelled them with, the absolutes haven't change just becausethe numbers labelling them have.

as with any other benchmarks they are only of use if they're used by everything that's involvedin whatever is happening. if your screen is expecting to display absolute black when it receives the 255 notifier and your console understands absolute black as 235 there are going to be problems as they're speaking different languages.

[BIG EDD]

I've got my WII U running on a black and white rediffusion tv wil my blacks look grey

[gIzzE]

Look you have your opinion I have mine, regardless of what I say its not going to stop people buying a WiiU , stop being so petty about it. I have already said that its not a major deal breaker even for me, its just something that I would like to see supported that's all. It's a 'nice to have' not an absolute essential, but seeing other consoles support it, so should the WiiU

If it gets supported in to the future then I will be a happy bunny .. Just drop it now ffs ... I wish I hadn't even bought it up!

Don't try and turn it around about me being petty.
You posted some info and I pointed out that it was incorrect and not to worry. I thought your reply would have been "oh, nice one."
But no, you then carried on posting that what you posted was fact, even though plenty of people were explaining it to you, you carried on then saying we all have our opinions, there is no opinion on this it is basic video calibration and it is fact.


It was the fact you kept saying 'no full RGB, you will loose info.' To me this is the same as someone telling people that composite is as good as RGB, it is just wrong.

You can make out I am being petty, I was just trying to correct you when you were not getting it. I was never rude or anything like that I just tried to explain why you might see differences when you switch between full and limited.
You have taken it as me having a pop simply because I have said 'you're wrong'.

I can't do anything about that.

Anyway, off to take my lad to Hyde Park so I won't reply, but didn't mean to offend you mate, if I did I'm sorry, mearly tried to point out it is not an issue.

[dvdx2]

Don't try and turn it around about me being petty.
You posted some info and I pointed out that it was incorrect and not to worry. I thought your reply would have been "oh, nice one."
But no, you then carried on posting that what you posted was fact, even though plenty of people were explaining it to you, you carried on then saying we all have our opinions, there is no opinion on this it is basic video calibration and it is fact.
2

It was the fact you kept saying 'no full RGB, you will loose info.' To me this is the same as someone telling people that composite is as good as RGB, it is just wrong.

You can make out I am being petty, I was just trying to correct you when you were not getting it. I was never rude or anything like that I just tried to explain why you might see differences when you switch between full and limited.
You have taken it as me having a pop simply because I have said 'you're wrong'.

I can't do anything about that.

Anyway, off to take my lad to Hyde Park so I won't reply, but didn't mean to offend you mate, if I did I'm sorry, mearly tried to point out it is not an issue.

Dont worry about it gizzE, it was pretty clear what happened.

[SUMIRE]

Does anyone know if its possible to transfer NTSC USA Virtual console download titles to a PAL Wii U? the standard Wii is modded.