LCD/Plasma/CRT/DLP - questions

[Lyris]

A heads up to anyone considering the 32" or 40" Sony V Series. Wait until May. Sony of Europe just announced that they're updating these models with 2x Component Video in, VGA input, and a few other tweaks. In other words, almost everything I was so mad at them for taking off the European model of the original V-Series LCDs. (See posh sounding but actually frothing at the mouth letter here along with their reply).

The new model names are KDL-32V2000U and 40V respectively. Price is set at 1450 for the 32" (well worth it IMO because these are my LCDs of choice). You can read more at http://www.lyris-lite.net/fu_archives/000306.html (contains link to AV Forums).

The S-Series is also getting a similar upgrade in April, but these sets weren't downgraded as much for Europe as the Vs so the changes are less.

[MJ]

A heads up to anyone considering the 32" or 40" Sony V Series. Wait until May. Sony of Europe just announced that they're updating these models with 2x Component Video in, VGA input, and a few other tweaks. In other words, almost everything I was so mad at them for taking off the European model of the original V-Series LCDs. (See posh sounding but actually frothing at the mouth letter here along with their reply).

The new model names are KDL-32V2000U and 40V respectively. Price is set at 1450 for the 32" (well worth it IMO because these are my LCDs of choice). You can read more at http://www.lyris-lite.net/fu_archives/000306.html (contains link to AV Forums).

The S-Series is also getting a similar upgrade in April, but these sets weren't downgraded as much for Europe as the Vs so the changes are less.

There is also a new X series launching, which will be their top of the range models.

I'm trying to find some information I was reading earlier, but can't locate it. When/if I do I'll post the details.

[Lyris]

Yeah, the AV Forums link contained there has all the info on the new ranges. I just talk about the V because it's the one that I'm most interested in (and is the one I can almost afford )

[mid]

So that's a general "wait a couple of months" for everyone wanting a new TV, then, as you'll probably either want one of those new Sony releases or one of the new 60/600 models from Panasonic that come out in a month or so's time.

[Lyris]

Yep, with my 2004 Sony "LCD WEGA" which has no digital video input at all I know that all too well. But these new ones are significantly improved. Remember that I followed the current V-series release from Japan, to America, then when it arrived in Europe it had all the extra bells and whistles that'd justify my upgrade stripped out (VGA input is the main one).

I mean - you wouldn't want to buy a 32" V-Series now and see the improved version with 2 Component inputs and dedicated PC monitor functionality (which should be a standard feature on a screen this expensive) for the same price in May. In fact, I think Sony is actually cutting the price a little - not sure on that though.

[MJ]

I believe Toshiba are launching a new range to replace their good performing WLT58 series too. I liked the 32WLT58 when I saw one on demo.

[krispyk]

http://www.cheapelectricals.co.uk/ac...l26s2000u.html

New 26 inch Sony LCD coming soon. Not as good as the new V Class but comes in 26 inch size which may be more than big enough for some bedrooms.

Plus points are 2 component, VGA and HDMI.

Now do I get this or a new JVC with twin HDMI. Its a bit of a tough decision.

[Angry the Clown]

In fact, I think Sony is actually cutting the price a little - not sure on that though.

Any idea what the new 40 inch may go for? I'm actually absurdly tempted by the forthcoming SXRD based rear projection set Sony are bringing to the UK in September, but I'm still teased by the odd LCD display for its practicality in being so light and slim which in all honesty is still going to be most suitable for my current home, and generally I am still dying to replace my 32" interlaced CRT. It does help that the Sony LCDs are very attractive to the eye as well.

I appreciate all your little tips about tweaking the Sony LCDs. It's encouraging and kind of put them back on my radar.

[Simmy]

This made me chuckle

Great parody of the sony bouncing balls vid !

[EvilBoris]

Any idea what the new 40 inch may go for? I'm actually absurdly tempted by the forthcoming SXRD based rear projection set Sony are bringing to the UK in September, but I'm still teased by the odd LCD display for its practicality in being so light and slim which in all honesty is still going to be most suitable for my current home, and generally I am still dying to replace my 32" interlaced CRT. It does help that the Sony LCDs are very attractive to the eye as well.

I appreciate all your little tips about tweaking the Sony LCDs. It's encouraging and kind of put them back on my radar.

You don't want rear projection, its so annoying watching one of those, move you head the tinyest bit and the screen will get darker or lighter

[krispyk]

Any idea what the new 40 inch may go for? I'm actually absurdly tempted by the forthcoming SXRD based rear projection set Sony are bringing to the UK in September, but I'm still teased by the odd LCD display for its practicality in being so light and slim which in all honesty is still going to be most suitable for my current home, and generally I am still dying to replace my 32" interlaced CRT. It does help that the Sony LCDs are very attractive to the eye as well.

I appreciate all your little tips about tweaking the Sony LCDs. It's encouraging and kind of put them back on my radar.

Some info here.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showt...=295482&page=8

Some price info for you.

http://www.cheapelectricals.co.uk/ac...l26s2000u.html

http://www.cheapelectricals.co.uk/ac...v32v2000u.html

http://www.cheapelectricals.co.uk/ac...l40x2000u.html

[Crisp_Rapper]

You don't want rear projection, its so annoying watching one of those, move you head the tinyest bit and the screen will get darker or lighter

they're certainly a lot better than they used to be, they're still pish though. sat and played with the samsung 42" dlp and came away thinking i was tripping, i saw beautiful rainbows all over the place. so much so i had no idea what i was watching as i was that distracted.

they're much better these days but you still have to be sat square on, eyes level with the middle of the picture (unless you can tilt it) otherwise your screen will brighten/darken and become a kaleidoscope of wonderful rainbows.

[Angry the Clown]

Some info here.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/show...t=295482&page=8

Some price info for you.

http://www.cheapelectricals.co.uk/a...dl26s2000u.html

http://www.cheapelectricals.co.uk/a...lv32v2000u.html

http://www.cheapelectricals.co.uk/a...dl40x2000u.html

Cheers!

sat and played with the samsung 42" dlp and came away thinking i was tripping, i saw beautiful rainbows all over the place. so much so i had no idea what i was watching as i was that distracted

That's dlp for you though. I?m not a fan of it, single chip or three chip. The SXRD technology is really quite something, and inherently 3 chip so there are no rainbows and the like - and I still find it to offer the most natural film like image I have seen in a digital display product. Sony are bringing two sets out in the autumn, a 55inch and a 70inch, both 1080p with the 55 inch expected to be as low as about ?2500. It's not difficult to see the temptation, especially if you've seen SXRD at work inside the Qualia projector, or most recently the cheaper 'Ruby' projector (the latter of which is also 1080p, and about ?8000 which is a bargain for what it is and does frankly.) The downside to rear projection of course can be convergence and viewing angle issues as stated, of that there is no doubt, but there?s some kind of issue with all TV technologies be they flat panel, crt or rptv. You just have to make a choice

The reports of viewing angles on the SXRD tvs that hit America last year were actually very positive and ahead of what has been seen on dlp and cld rear projection sets. I've not yet seen the sets in action personally however, only the two projectors using the technology, so I am eager to see how they perform. The absolute downside with rptv at the moment is the bulk of the unit, and like I said, my current dwelling calls for a bit of practicality as far as televisions might be concerned.

[andrewfee]

http://www.cheapelectricals.co.uk/ac...l26s2000u.html

New 26 inch Sony LCD coming soon. Not as good as the new V Class but comes in 26 inch size which may be more than big enough for some bedrooms.

Plus points are 2 component, VGA and HDMI.

Now do I get this or a new JVC with twin HDMI. Its a bit of a tough decision.

Sony are introducing new models across the board, including a new U series.

The V now starts at 32" however, meaning that the KDLV26A12U seems to be the last "high end" 26" LCD they'll do. (just like Philips only do their 9830 series from 32" and up)

Very disappointing, as I'm looking at a 26" screen for my room.

This made me chuckle

Great parody of the sony bouncing balls vid !

That's brilliant!

they're certainly a lot better than they used to be, they're still pish though. sat and played with the samsung 42" dlp and came away thinking i was tripping, i saw beautiful rainbows all over the place. so much so i had no idea what i was watching as i was that distracted.

they're much better these days but you still have to be sat square on, eyes level with the middle of the picture (unless you can tilt it) otherwise your screen will brighten/darken and become a kaleidoscope of wonderful rainbows.

The "rainbows" is because it was a DLP set, nothing to do with rear-projection. (Philips LCDs with Ambilight show this as well)




I got my KDLV26A12U on Monday, and hadn't got around to posting up about it until tonight, I'm afraid. I'll try to keep this one short, as I'm sure you're all fed up reading my huge posts. (I'm certainly getting tired of writing them.)

Out of the box first impressions; build quality seemed better than Samsung, but worse than both Sharp and Philips. (Philips being a step above the rest) As for looks; I still feel Sharp was the best looking set, followed by Philips, then Sony and finally Samsung.

Just like the Sharp, the stand was attached inside the box; no assembly required. I assume this is standard practice for 26" displays. The stand itself is fairly good, with a hole in it to fix it securely to the desk. It seemed stable enough, but worrying that they felt they needed to include it.

I had read that the stand could tilt up/down, but couldn't find a way to do this, and didn't see it mentioned in the manual. It has about 15 degrees rotation left/right, which is nice and stiff, but just feels cheap after the Philips' motorized stand. (I'd rather it was just a solid fixed one, to be honest - although tilting would be welcome)


The remote is smaller and lighter than the rest, but feels solidly built. I do prefer a weightier remote though; the Philips was perfect. It didn't seem to have a lot of buttons, and I felt that the layout / assignment of buttons could have been better.

Menus are a very mixed bag. The amount of options (on the custom preset) are good, although like the Sharp, some are unnecessary, in my opinion. My problem with the menus is size. They pop up in a tiny window in the lower-left corner, taking up about 1/6th of the display or less. With my eyesight this was not a problem even at 8ft, but it easily could be for many people. While I could read it ok, I would definitely have preferred a larger font used.

When buying this set, I knew I was sacrificing a VGA input for, what I believed to be better image quality, based off what other users/owners had been saying about the display compared with others.

I figured that, if the rest was up to scratch, that I would be willing to pay the additional price and loose one very handy input. (I've got a Mac laptop, so no reason to connect a computer up to the display just yet, but my XRGB2+ and X360 would make use of it, and I am considering buying a PC for games in future for things like Spore and Supreme Commander)

Was this the case? Well, it's sitting in its box again waiting for John Lewis to come and collect it tomorrow afternoon, if that answers your question.



Black levels on this set are fantastic. Not only does Sony have a manual backlight control (no auto sensor though, unfortunately) but it also has a Power Saving mode, which significantly lowers it. (I didn't measure, but I'd imagine about 50-65%)

At its lowest setting, I measured the backlight at 67cd/m2! I found the ideal setting to be Power Saving on, Backlight 3/10, and Contrast at 85.

This provides significantly better blacks than any other LCD Television I've seen out there. Even other sets that have an adjustable backlight don't usually go as low as it does in normal mode, let alone power saving.

At 100cd/m2, which is what my laptop is set to (what I compare all TVs to) blacks were better! Finally!

With any kind of light at all, even a very dim one, blacks are inky. Superior to CRT, in my opinion, as you don't get any glare or reflections.

In a pitch-black room, the majority of the time, it beats out the CRTs we have here. Now, CRT can produce blacker blacks. However, they do so while sacrificing a huge amount of shadow detail. When set to show all the shadow detail, other than pitch-black scenes, the Sony was better. Condemend even looked great.

Not only were blacks good, but the brightness control was definitely the finest of the four. On the Sharp, you couldn't move it from 12 or 8, depending on the source. Samsung also moved quite a bit as you adjusted it, and Philips was fairly good, but the Sony definitely lets you get the black point set just right.

Why is it going back then? Well, the de-interlacer wasn't great; from what I remember, Philips was better. It didn't seem like much of a step-up from the Samsung, even. (although it didn't seem to "smear" like the Samsung did on occasion)

Response times are good but Sharp and Philips were better. This does tend to trail a little with dark objects on a fairly flat background. Perhaps a little better than the Samsung LE32R41BX, but not significantly so. It is using a slightly newer Samsung panel though, which explains why it was so similar in this regard.

Colour rendition was great, especially with lower backlight levels (the other displays lost a lot more colour as the backlight dropped) and viewing angles were even better than the rest, vertical in particular. Skintones were noticeably more natural-looking, thanks to the Wide Colour Gamut CCFL backlight. On most sources, however, turning colour down from 25 resulted in some things looking far too desaturated, meaning that, at times, colour did seem too strong on the set.


The worst thing though? Well, while Samsung forced edge-enhancement on you with its DNIe processing that couldn't be disabled, Sony does so in another way. You have a slider from 0-50, defaulting to 25. If you lower the slider, not only does it remove the edge enhancement, but it actually blurs the output. I don't mean it looks "softer" it actually blurs it. Only via HDMI could you lower the sharpness setting without these drawbacks. This was particularly noticeable with the OSD. (not the menus, however)

With standard definition content, this is bad enough, but it was unbearable in HD. (I did not really have any 720p test material for the Samsung) The Xbox 360 dashboard alone looked awful on this set. Sharp is still the clear winner with (progressive) high definition content, of the four I've used, as you could have sharpness right down, and it still looked sharp. (but not edge-enhanced)

If it had a VGA input, I imagine I could have got around the edge-enhancement problem with the 360, but it doesn't. Due to this and the trailing, it was not worth the additional cost and sacrifice of VGA.

The set was also very feature-lite in many regards; it doesn't even have a "freeze" option, which I use a fair bit.

Scaling was poor, and particularly surprising was 720p over HDMI from my Powerbook, that was very disappointing. ICO is a great test for scaling, and it seems that the WEGA Engine was not up to the task. Again, this is somewhere that Sharp fared much better. (although the de-interlacing let it down with interlaced stuff)



I've just had to leave and do something else, so I've completly lost my train of thought, but I think that covers most of it. If I think of anything else I'll add it later.



So now, I'm completely stumped. Finally an LCD with proper backlight controls... but lacking elsewhere. If it had a VGA input, I'd probably have kept it to be honest, as PS2/Xbox etc were ok with the EE.

Sony is updating the V series to include VGA and have two Component inputs, but that's going to be 32"+ which means I'll be sitting too close for SD material. (and it really is noticeably worse when you're closer than 3x the diagonal, in my opinion)

Another complaint I had, which probably won't be fixed, is that you need to use the Sony wall-mount bracket, as most mounts use a mounting plate, which would cover up the majority of the inputs.

Unless there is another LCD that has a proper backlight control that lets me bring it down to at least 100cd/m2, then I can't think of what else I could do.

If only I didn't have Component / VGA / DVI / HDMI cables for everything now. I'm pretty much tied into LCD.

[themanwithapc]

Nice to hear your search continues andrew. Just out of interest, have you tried the Panasonic or Loewe sets?