Final Fantasy XI Then...

[Darwock]

hate them with a passion.

Goes back further than this, but once long ago I had arranged with my friend Claude to party together on valkurm dunes for a laugh, he had been struggling to get a healer for his parties on previous nights so I offered to go as red mage and take this role, so kitted out with that in mind. I was a little too high level, but as I was really just there for the fun of playing with a friend I took a few deaths to keep my level down. Talizker eventually joined the group too so was a good laugh.

Anyway, we switched out a party member at one point, and the new guy brought a powerleveller with him. New party member starts telling me to stop healing the party.. i'm like 'er... no, that's what I'm here for'.. so he starts giving me his opinions on what red mages are supposed to do. Then this powerleveller starts telling me to stop casting cure as well >< I don't like doing that anyway because someone outside the party can't see everyone's health bar.

Turns out the new party member was PAYING this guy to powerlevel him, they weren't even friends. Anyway I took a huff at getting bossed around when I was only playing for fun, and quit the party. The powerleveller let somebody die almost immediately after.

On top of that, I just think it's damn lazy. That said I *will* power level someone solo if I was responsible for getting them killed for any reason.

[Tobal]

Very good night last night, thankyou wedge for coming along despite his best efforts to get himself killed :P, the shouting out worked managed to get 2 War from 60-64 and Payback the Pld from Zilart mission?s. This time we found the how to get to blood demon?s but dropping drop on to the top ledge in the hole, and then once clearing out the 4 demons in the room, looping back up and dropping down the next hole. Took as while and few near death moments to get the Sam testimony.

I then said ?I try at it tomorrow? and logged off?. 10mins later im back on ?Sorry can?t stop myself?

Plan? brought Blind band 35k, x-potion x2 10k, regen drink 1k, Kabob 800g.

Now I when with the plan of unequipping all my armour for the rumoured stats match Maat does, after the enter Enter BCNM I equipment my gear all my hachiman for +STR +WS ACC it also offer better def and no ?eva, took off all ?eva gear. Next Mediate, and Blink Band, wait for med?s timer to be up, regen drink and in i go,

Gekko > -2hr- Yukikaze (sc Ice) > Gekko (sc Frag) ?. And dead all of 15 sec?s it took I didn?t even get off the last Ws or another mediate off or use any potion?s.

I?m so very tempted when I got bit more exp to go back and break the record of 4mins 1sec(I did 4mins,2secs) this time mediate and straight into battle should be able to do it 30-40secs.

[C']

Can?t stand them and will leave any party the moment I realise a power-leveler is involved. This is not a massively skill based game when it comes down to it, in the traditional sense (the NIN blink-tank role is probably the closest the game gets to ?twitch? type gameplay). What the game does require from players is a knowledge of how the game system works.

Damage-dealers/tanks need to understand the principles of hate control/hate management, get this wrong and death is the likely result.

Pullers need to know what is safe to pull, and when, and also need to be aware of linking dangers. In fact pulling is possibly one largest components of risk/reward in this game. If your puller is too eager there is danger of linking more than your PT can handle or having mages not ready for next battle. Too slow and that important EXP chain is broken.

Healers have to keep the tank healthy but also have to be aware of the HP of other PT members (a healer focussed solely on the tank is a danger to other PT members), be ready with a Curaga to deal with a nasty AOE attack, cast appropriate Bar spells, be ready with remedies to specific conditions as quickly as possible (if I get hit with a Slow that isn?t dealt with as soon as possible, there is a good chance I will die).

So whilst ?skill? is directly related to player?s abilities in the traditional sense of beat-em ups, shooters etc, players need a knowledge and understanding of what they can and cannot deal with and how to react in situations where things do not go as planned.

Add a power-leveler into this and none of what I said matters. Players don?t have to think or beware of their limitations. It?s just hour after hour of (admittedly great) EXP. It?s dull and boring and I don?t play this game to be bored. Also, I like to come out of an EXP party feeling like I?ve earned whatever EXP I?ve gotten. I hope people realise this about me now but I like to work for what I want. I take no pleasure in taking an easy way out.

However there is also potential danger that power-levelers offer in hindering a characters development. How is a WAR/PLD/NIN tank supposed to level their important Parrying/Shield/Evasion skills when they never have the mobs attention. Go through the Valkurm/Qufim/Kazham levels with purely power-leveled parties and that is potentially 20 levels of skills that have been lost and may be difficult to get back. Players won?t learn how to deal with adds efficiently at the lower levels, which leads to the massive trains as they dash in a panic to the zoneline in places like Garlaige Citadel or Crawler?s Nest.

I?ve heard the arguments before from people taking 2nd/3rd/4th jobs through the lower levels that they don?t need to know this stuff as they?ve done it before and therefore a PL is ok. That may be true but consider that you may be partying with potentially 5 people on there first run who need to learn how to improve as players.

[Darwock]

That may be true but consider that you may be partying with potentially 5 people on there first run who need to learn how to improve as players.

"it's not my folt your all a bunch of n00bs"

[C']

oh and the best thing I get into was a power-leveled party where a group of gilsellers were leveling themselves a NIN. I got out of that one as soon as I could.

[talizker]

Power Leveler - No Thanks! Just echoing everyone else's thoughts really except to add in some instances its actually harder exp'ing with a PL'er as job rolls go out the window.

...and to pay (20k/hr I think in Valkurm in Darwocks party) is criminal!

[C']

Some more updates:

Changes to Utsusemi and Ranged Attacks

The next version update will make battle more strategic for players who use Utsusemi or ranged attacks.

*Changes to the ninjutsu "Utsusemi"
In the next update, the player's enmity will decrease when a shadow image created by Utsusemi is absorbed by an attack.

*Changes to Ranged Attacks
Soon, the distance of the monster from the player will determine the damage and accuracy of ranged attacks. This determination will vary from weapon to weapon, as will the ideal distance for maximum damage. In addition, the higher the monster's level is with regard to the player, the less damage will be dealt with a ranged attack. This system is similar to that of melee attacks, but the difference in damage will not be as great.

A score of new material and exciting new improvements awaits in the next version update in mid-July, so keep checking this site for details as the time approaches!

FINAL FANTASY XI Development Team (6/30/2005)

Not going to panic over this just yet. Whilst the initial fear is obviously that it is going to impact on a NIN's ability to tank, I've lived through the 'Utsusemi Nerf' of September 2004 and have learned to wait until the update is put into place before declaring "OMG t3h NIN is DOoM3D".

As for the ranged attack change, from the sounds of it they are trying to ensure ranged attacks are truly ranged (similar to how WoW operates). Again will be interesting to see how it works. Will THF/nin who solo with Bloody Bolts become more restricted?

Once again though this update is going to reignite all the debates over whether NIN is a tank or not. Before the Utsusemi changes (or Nerf which it wasn't really) people declared it the end of NIN tanking, but in actual fact changed very little. In the same update they even added NIN JSE with Emnity+, with more pieces of JSE with Emnity bonuses added since.

[Darwock]

Not sure of the Utsusemi change but the other one sounds great! Will hopefully go a step towards balancing out the over-powered ranger job.

Wil this extra hate thing only affect utsusemi shadows and not shadows created from blink? Just realised I may have misinterpreted 'enmity'.. where's my dictionary... isn't enmity a good thing? with hate being the opposite? durrr...

[C']

Tanks want more Emnity, everyone else wants less. Emnity is hate basically. That is why I use Emnity+ gear when tanking in an EXP PT to help me.

Currently emnity is lost gradually over time anyway, but also everytime the mob hits you a spike of enmity is lost. NIN tanks are not able to generate the same levels of enmity as quickly as a PLD but don?t get hit as often either as through the use of evasion and Utsusemi they rarely take hits. However, by having enmity lost whenever an Utsusemi shadow absorbs damage it means NIN will be losing more enmity than they do currently.

Obviously this isn?t going to be good for NIN but how much it impacts remains to be seen.

It may also indicate the introduction of more tools for NIN to use. We are currently missing to spells from out Ni line (Poison 2 and Paralyze 2 essentially) the use of which would be great for obtaining more emnity (for these spells I am still using the level 1, or Ichi, versions which I guess generate lower amounts of emnity). There is also an entire line of tier 3 spells (San) which are coded into the game but are not obtainable by players.

[Tobal]

OOhhh I see a lot of balancing going on.

I reckon the loss of hate on UST would be same as actually getting hit in the face, so it would kind of bringing Ninja inline with War tank, it would require a skilled Ninja to require hate, and would give Thf?s and Thf sub(past 60) a needed role.

And to help this there making Ranger at last a Skilled job and not just about who has he best equipment to do the most damage so they can grab hate for max pride, this will make rangers actually use Bow,Guns outside the Uber +rng att ones and carry maybe close quarters and distance bow.

[?pint]

The only type of NIN this will affect are those who go purely for AGI+ and evasion. These kind of Ninja already have problems holding hate without a thief and in my opinion a Paladin is much more useful than evasion Ninjas.
However, the best Ninja's hold hate by dealing damage. This can be done in a number of ways; I've played with (incredibly rich) Ninjas who go for AGI+ (AGI affects ranged accuracy) STR+ and ranged attack and accuracy +. These guys use shuriken which do actually deal an impressive amount of damage.
The other way is to just go full out damage with katana's. The downside to this is, of course, that you sacrifice evasion, but past level 45 ish, NIN have the :Ni debuffs, meaning evasion isn't particularly important. If the worst comes to the worst you take a bit of damage every now and then. If it means you hold hate, I don't mind .

[Darwock]

Would that still work combined with the changes to ranged attacks though? Or is throwing considered separately from ranged and unaffected by this?

[mikewl]

Well I have been thinking about my Maat fight today, I have some more plans to add to my strategy and im going to give it a go tonight.

I am really looking forward to it, just need to spend an hour getting ready when I get back.

[Tobal]

A lot of rangers are getting very pissy on the many ffxi forums, most them think(if not all) seem to think that closer the better acc but crapper damage, further away less acc more damage. I for one don?t see how that ill work, and all off them seem to be missing out the weapon types, it seem pretty clear to me (throwing ? close), (short bow/crossbow ? close/mid), (long bow/Guns - mid/far), and moving outside of these ranges lowers the damage/acc, the only real nerf is rng?s on kited God?s, it going to be much harder to get a good shot in, and Sam/Rng that use Long Bows.

[C']

it seem pretty clear to me

That's just it, it isn't clear at all. Like the time when they announced Subtle Blow (without telling us what it did), and the changes to how Utusemi was affected by AOE attacks (again not mentioning specifically until the patch came) we don't know exactly how these changes will work.

They have told us what is changing. Now how.

Until we know for sure (day of update I am certain) your theory is just as valid as anyone elses and people are free to have concerns.

Personally I don't see any poit in being concerned with these things now, until I know exactly how the changes work. I panicked last year regarding AOE Utsu and it turned out to be nothing. Not going to make that mistake again.

Conjecture is pointless and only serves to fan the flames of conflict between players (as has been evidenced on the FFXI forums today). Very sad.