The Avengers

[rmoxon]

Well you might be right but I hope not as it sounds more like two films than a well structured whole. I also don't think they should show that loki is the main bad guy till later on. We are suppose to think hulk is a bad guy for most of the film until after the have caught him/dumped him in the sea or whatever they are gonna do to neutralise him in this. If they show that he's not and is just being controlled straight away it will ruin it because the focus of the film won't be on hulk anyway so the viewer won't really care plus all
Potential plot twists will have gone out the window.

I hope you're wrong about most you've said really, as I actualy want this to be a good film and not some poorly structured mess. The film you're suggesting also sounds completely lacking in imagination. I just really hope you are wrong and the film doesn't descend into a boringly plotted alien invasion film.

[Neon Ignition]

I don't think they have much choice to be honest, they have such a limited amount of time to fit everything in that it's not worth spending it in areas which won't have the intended effect. The problem with the Hulk section for example is that even the most cursory of knowledge from the viewer means that they're never going to be convinced he's the villain. Modern pop culture works too much against it.

[bash]

Rmoxon, you want this to be too similar to the comics and I've given up hope on this kind of stuff. The Studios are in this to make money, period. If they can please a few fanboys along the way then bonus. The way to make money is to water it down so it can appeal to the masses. Im talking toning down the violence so kids can watch it and toning down the plot/character intricacies so that even grand pa bloggs can follow the plot.

Yes, a straight adaption of the ultimates would've been kool but it just aint gonna happen!

[rmoxon]

We'll see I guess. A big part of me feels like you will both be eating your own words next year though.

[bash]

I'll happily eat my words but Marvels track record so far has been sketchy at best. 1 out of 4 is poor (1 being Ironman. IM2, Hulk and Thor being the rest). Maybe they can make it 2 out of 5 with Captain America?

Having read Whedons Wiki page I've realised I've never been impressed with any of his past "achievements". It would appear he makes cult, not mainstream, hits. Hopefully for the fans, this wont be a bridge too far, Im beginning to think this is a massive gamble for Marvel/Disney. according to IMDB its another $150m budget movie . . . . that was the same as Thor FFS. Even IM2 was around $200m. Im sorry but for The avengers this will barely pay the "all star" casts salaries LOL

Maybe the Hulk will feature heavily in this and an invasion plot will take place in a sequel Thor 2, IM3 etc? LOL

[rmoxon]

I hope so.

I'm a much bigger fan of both Whedon and the marvel films than you are though.

Angel and Firefly are two of the best TV shows ever and Serenity was a great film. I also like his work in comics, Astonishing X-men is probabaly the best x-men comic I have ever read, which is saying alot. He knows what the fans want which is why Im hopefuly he will make this film the right way.

As for Marvel films I loved both Iron Man films and really liked Thor. The Increadble Hulk was terrible though.

[Neon Ignition]

After Serenity I definately have faith that Whedon can pull off a good film and I'm slightly relieved that he's having such a high level of involvement in it with him being such a fan of both comic and film mediums. I'll likely go to my grave being on the defensive side with the Hulk film given I don't have any issues with it, it handled the character the way it needed to be handled and gave audiences a solid entertaining action film which is pretty much all most want out of the fairly limited character.

For Avengers though, I don't think Marvel has much of a choice in changing it from the comics. They've already stated their intent to do an instalment every few years which binds them into having to take the series into original storyline territory as they don't own the rights to produce films featuring many of the characters needed thanks to previous agreements made with 3rd party studios like Fox nd Sony. They also have to work with the existing films which deviate in various ways from existing comic stories and edit out any characters or stories that wouldn't work in film form. As long as they use the framework of the comic and stay true to the existing films then it should be fine, I'm sure Whedon will be able to strike a fair balance between the films continuity and the comics, but a straight adaptation is already ruled out and even a pretty close one seems unlikely.

[rmoxon]

For Avengers though, I don't think Marvel has much of a choice in changing it from the comics. They've already stated their intent to do an instalment every few years which binds them into having to take the series into original storyline territory as they don't own the rights to produce films featuring many of the characters needed thanks to previous agreements made with 3rd party studios like Fox nd Sony. They also have to work with the existing films which deviate in various ways from existing comic stories and edit out any characters or stories that wouldn't work in film form. As long as they use the framework of the comic and stay true to the existing films then it should be fine, I'm sure Whedon will be able to strike a fair balance between the films continuity and the comics, but a straight adaptation is already ruled out and even a pretty close one seems unlikely.

Theres enough story in the ultimates for it to have 2 or 3 films based on it and if they wanted to make more afterwards they could do original storylines in the future.

Also, you mention the other marvel films not being like their scource material but that's becuase there was never a specific graphic novel they were based on in the first place. This is a whole different thing with this film.

[Neon Ignition]

I don't think it is different with this, it's definately inspired by the comics but its closeness to the source material is definately on the side of fans desire rather than studio intent. Annoyingly they're writing the film as they film it but the definate thing about it is that the storyline is fully complete in just the 1 film.

[rmoxon]

I don't think it is different with this, it's definately inspired by the comics but its closeness to the source material is definately on the side of fans desire rather than studio intent. Annoyingly they're writing the film as they film it but the definate thing about it is that the storyline is fully complete in just the 1 film.

The ultimates has more than one storyline, the Mark Millar stuff is 2 volumes, they could easily make that into more than one film even if they change it about alot. Then there is a third volume which I have never read and is suppose to be rubbish but its still there. So thats at least 3 potential films.

I'm not saying they will do it that way, I'm just saying they can.

For you to say anything is "definite" at this point is jumping the gun a bit i would say. At least as far as how the story is shaping up anyway.

[Neon Ignition]

Not really considering they've already cast the film and there are some chunky ommisions

[rmoxon]

Not really considering they've already cast the film and there are some chunky ommisions

Chunky ommisions? And no the film isnt fully cast yet, they havent even told people who all the villians are gonna be yet, we still just have rumours about some of them. So the cast is not complete.

If anything they are giving some characters a bigger role in the film, Hawkeye seems like hes gonna be in it alot more than in the comic. Doubt they would have given the role to a relativley well known actor if they were just gonna have him in a couple of scenes.

I also dont think they will end up focusing on Iron man as much as people think they are going too, Thor has been really popular, i imagine captain america will be too as comic book films just seem to be getting more popular every day.

Those are the three main chracters of the avengers right there and they should all get equal focus and if people like them and want to see more of them there is no reason why there wont be equal focus on them. I mean lets face it, you cant have the Avengers if Captain America isnt the leader for a start, Iron man is never gonna be anyones leader (which is one of the reasons the civil war comic was never as good as it should have been). So they will need to push Captain America to the front of the film.

[Neon Ignition]

Pym and Wasp are still AWOL with the common connection being Marvels uncertainty on direction for the planned solo film (not that I mind, awful characters). There's rumbles they may appear but sans transformations and domestics. The entire CA opening is gone too as the upcoming solo CA film has its own interpreted sequence which covers events and leads to the films post credit sequence with the Cap in modern Times Square with Fury.

I read about Hawkeye getting expanded, seems they fancy a quick solo flick there too. Overall I'm loving this Cap, Avengers, Lantern, X Men, Spiderman, Batman, Superman wave of films, beats more Potter, lol

[bash]

To be fair, the whole Pym Wasp affair across ultimates 1 n 2 was one of the more significant "modern" updates that Marvel ultimates introduced. Without it I fear it'll just be bland popcorn fodder rather than raw emotive stuff not normally touched upon in the comic/movie verse.

[rmoxon]

Pym and Wasp are still AWOL with the common connection being Marvels uncertainty on direction for the planned solo film (not that I mind, awful characters). There's rumbles they may appear but sans transformations and domestics. The entire CA opening is gone too as the upcoming solo CA film has its own interpreted sequence which covers events and leads to the films post credit sequence with the Cap in modern Times Square with Fury.

I read about Hawkeye getting expanded, seems they fancy a quick solo flick there too. Overall I'm loving this Cap, Avengers, Lantern, X Men, Spiderman, Batman, Superman wave of films, beats more Potter, lol

I still think that Captain America ending sounds dodgy. I mean, opening The Avengers with them unfreezing him would be a great first scene even if they didnt have the bit where he gets frozen in it. I really dont understand why they wouldnt work that into the avengers film somehow. Wouldnt just having him frozen be a good cliffhanger ending for the Cap movie?

Plus you just know its gonna be an after the credits sequence so half the people watching it wont even see it anyway. Part of me hopes its all just somthing the studio has leaked to the public so they dont actualy know the real ending of the film.

To be fair, the whole Pym Wasp affair across ultimates 1 n 2 was one of the more significant "modern" updates that Marvel ultimates introduced. Without it I fear it'll just be bland popcorn fodder rather than raw emotive stuff not normally touched upon in the comic/movie verse.

Yeah its a shame it probabaly wont be in the film, though the story still has a pretty dark tone even without those two characters, hopefuly they can keep some of that atmosphere intact.