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    Well I'm still in disbelief, totally gutted. Trying not to feel angry though, even though I think it's ****ty form from Fernando, something I never thought I'd say. So many things about it are incomprehensible.

    Of course, last season was awful, this season has been at times close to disastrous, and I know very few would begrudge him wanting to move on in the summer. He's been lied to time and again, and we've lost top, top players over the past few years. I get it.

    But over the last painful 6 months, the cancerous hierarchy and debt has been removed from the club, we've ditched the pathetic Roy Hodgson as manager, and installed a manager who understands the club, the fans and a short-term philosophy of how the players should conduct themselves on the pitch, which has already started to look like it's paying dividends.

    What's difficult to swallow is we've brought in Suarez (presumably as cover or a partner to Torres), and 3 ****ing days before the transfer window closes, he declares he wants out. It's all very well to say, "ah well, he wants to, he wants out" but as far as I can see this is totally out of the blue, and it's not on. And ****ing Chelsea, of all teams? Torres, in blue? Only a few weeks ago he'd publically stated his intention to see out his contract, and said as much in the summer of last year when the club was in turmoil.

    If nothing else, I suppose this revelation explains his at times poor attitude on the pitch this year (not, as the tiresome 'experts' have been saying every damn week - his fitness). His heart just wasn't in it as it once was, maybe it hasn't been for a while now. In which case, we move on.

    I honestly thought for such a long time now this guy could become the greatest striker we'd ever had He could have done that, and stated as wanting to be as much when he joined. El Nino. A hero, a legend we'd talk about in years to come. Of course we still will, but not in the same way. Now he's just another Micheal Owen.

    He's quadruple the player Bent is. 50m has to be a minimum. Throw in Anelka (who loves LFC) and maybe there's deal in there.

    Pacheco + Suarez? We've got Ngog too. But there's a lot of hard work and adjustment ahead all of a sudden. This season has just been too painful for too long, when is it going to end?

    *sigh* Sorry for the long post. Off for a little cry now
    YNWA

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      What this proves is that are very few genuinely loyal players out there. Wasn't this the guy who used to wear the YNWA band? Didn't he say only recently he was happy to stay?

      People point to players like Giggs, Scholes, the loyalty!! People need to understand, if the Fergie era had failed and United didn't have the years they had these players would have been long gone to a successful club.

      The days of truly loyal players, one club for over ten years even though success might be a way away are gone. There won't be players like Le Tissier again.

      As a Spurs fan I am not naive enough to believe we can hold onto "stars" like Bale, Modric and Van der Vaart if Champions League football eludes us over the next couple of years. We have had our own stroppy wantaway striker in Berbatov and it was inevitable that once United started making noises he was gone. Thats the game.

      If I was in charge at 'Pool I would sell the player, why have someone there who doesn't want to be at the club, re-invest in the summer and start re-building with players who actually want to be there.

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        Originally posted by PH2 View Post
        What this proves is that are very few genuinely loyal players out there. Wasn't this the guy who used to wear the YNWA band? Didn't he say only recently he was happy to stay?

        People point to players like Giggs, Scholes, the loyalty!! People need to understand, if the Fergie era had failed and United didn't have the years they had these players would have been long gone to a successful club.

        The days of truly loyal players, one club for over ten years even though success might be a way away are gone. There won't be players like Le Tissier again.

        As a Spurs fan I am not naive enough to believe we can hold onto "stars" like Bale, Modric and Van der Vaart if Champions League football eludes us over the next couple of years. We have had our own stroppy wantaway striker in Berbatov and it was inevitable that once United started making noises he was gone. Thats the game.

        If I was in charge at 'Pool I would sell the player, why have someone there who doesn't want to be at the club, re-invest in the summer and start re-building with players who actually want to be there.
        Erm what? I'm not sure if that makes sense. The youth system we had in place back then meant we were going to have success under the right manager. Just like Barcelona have had under the right manager which is Guardiola. Rijkaard brought most of the youngsters through, but it didn't work for him.

        And why should Torres stay loyal to Liverpool. He most likely expected Liverpool to spend big this transfer window, not haggle over fees like in the past. Suarez is not the only player they need. Remember Torres left his hometown club because they couldn't get in the champions league. Why should he stay at Liverpool if they can't get in the champions league and compete? When will Liverpool get a decent squad so they can qualify for the champions league. Rooney left his hometown club. So I don't expect him to be loyal to Man Utd.

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          Hearing Chelsea have been told it's 50m minimum deal now.
          Or 40m + Anelka also.

          Edit: This is also reported on the BBC
          Last edited by Tetsuo; 30-01-2011, 14:46.

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            Torres training alone, today.

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              He's not worth 50m.

              If the Liverpool owners are happy paying the wage of an unmotivated player who doesn't want to be at the club, that's their choice.

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                Originally posted by Prototype View Post
                Erm what? I'm not sure if that makes sense. The youth system we had in place back then meant we were going to have success under the right manager. Just like Barcelona have had under the right manager which is Guardiola. Rijkaard brought most of the youngsters through, but it didn't work for him.
                I think he was just making the point that it's much easier to be loyal to a team that hasn't dropped out of the top three for a couple of decades. Had Man Utd gone off the boil and become a mid table team for a few years (for whatever reason) even the likes of Giggs and Scholes probably wouldn't have turned down a move to whatever clubs had become dominant.

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                  Originally posted by abigsmurf View Post
                  He's not worth 50m.

                  If the Liverpool owners are happy paying the wage of an unmotivated player who doesn't want to be at the club, that's their choice.
                  Darren Bent isn't worth 24mil. Dzeko was vastly overpriced too. Suarez is over priced at 23mil.

                  Torres is one of the top 5 strikers in the world, better than any of the three mentioned above. Therefore he is well worth 40-50mil in the current market. Especially if Chelsea want to pay it and considering they have offered 40mil already 50mil could be realistic. There will probably be a compromise though of 45mil or so.

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                    For a top 5 striker in the world he has a funny way of showing it

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                      In the league, 102 appearances and 65 goals. This season, despite being poor, he has scored 9 in 23 games. That aint bad for a striker in poor form. He is joint 5th with 9 other strikers.

                      I think someone mentioned he has one of the best goals to games ratios since the premier league started.

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                        Originally posted by Adrock View Post
                        I think someone mentioned he has one of the best goals to games ratios since the premier league started.
                        From open play it is currently the best since the formation of the league.


                        Can totally understand why he wants to leave - under the previous owners LFC made a profit for 4 transfer windows running and basically became a selling club, sacked the best manager we've had since Kenny and replaced him with someone a million miles out of his depth.
                        The timing of the transfer request, however, is borderline disgraceful.
                        Last edited by SharkSkin-Man; 30-01-2011, 23:04.

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                          Originally posted by abigsmurf View Post
                          He's not worth 50m.

                          If the Liverpool owners are happy paying the wage of an unmotivated player who doesn't want to be at the club, that's their choice.

                          You paid ?30+ million for a 'well past his prime' Shevchenko, ?50m for Torres is good value by comparison

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                            Well, you've got till 11pm tonight to find out if he's going to go now or not.

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                              ?30 million bid for Andy Carroll.

                              Blimey.

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                                All traces of Torres are currently being remove from the Liverpool site.

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