Metal Gear Solid 4

[SuperBeatBoy]

The MGS4 Save is found on the PAL machines. But unless you have completed the game it will not show any MGS4 related articles. This is to stop spoilers, If someone who has completed can check it should work OK.

Just so you know. I am currently on my 2nd playthrough doing no kills or alerts.

Looks like the US version might work, i'll give it a try later as i tried the japanese one previously.

[NekoFever]

I have PAL machine and the MGS database works fine. The MGS4 stuff is heeden until you complete the game, which I haven't yet, so all MGS4 stuff is 'blacked out' so you can't read it.

quite clever really.

It's blacked out by default, which means it hasn't found a save. The only time it unlocks is when it finds a completed MGS4 save, which it won't for the PAL game. Neither the US nor Japanese database would find my cleared PAL save, either automatically or by getting it to check again in the options menu.

Anyway, quick question for anyone who's beaten the second from last boss in the game:

->Open Spoiler<-

during the appearance of Psycho Mantis, if you had a Sixaxis rather than a Dual Shock 3, did he still try to move it with his mind? I was quite surprised when he brought up flashes of a white DS3, which is what I'm using, as he did it, so I can only assume that the exact controller model can be identified by the system. Clever stuff either way.

[kernow]

->Open Spoiler<-

no, he says something like 'no rumble, BAH!'

(I don't know for sure, I was using a ..

->Open Spoiler<-

ds3

)

[Dogg Thang]

It's clear by now that the community dialogue is mostly metatextual, having nothing to do with the game as delivered. The product is little more than icon at this point, a vessel for people's fond wishes, and there's no profit in discussing it.

One thing is clear - this game got much better as it went on. Somewhere during Act 4, for the first time, I thought it actually earned its use of the term 'game', something that was a mockery up to that point. But the actual gameplay gets better here and the story begins to really come together. I do love how it tied all of the Metal Gear games together - knowledge of all of them paid off and that was great to see. It actually added value to those other games. Great to see all of my favourite MG characters revisited in some shape or form.

A huge positive of this game is the music. The music is just stunning. I think all the MGS music has been excellent so this one had a lot to live up to and I think it far exceeded the standard. The main Old Snake theme was beautiful and just about every cut scene was scored to perfection.

And the ending, while way too long (

->Open Spoiler<-

I could totally have done without the whole Big Boss bit, which I felt added nothing but another 40 minutes to the game

), was definitely a satisfying end to the series.

But, as a game, what the hell was this? Best game this generation? Best MGS game? Best anything? No. Just no.

Act 1 revealed a massive flaw right from the start: someone in the development of this game wanted it to be a war game. And this game is simply not equipped in any shape or form to be that. The controls are clunky, unintuitive (even for someone who has played through every single MGS game) and severely limited. I don't think I could name a game in the last five years that has a worse control system. But people argue this works for MGS games. Yeah, as outdated as it is, it sort of does. But this game opens as a war game and Otocon's reminders that this is still a sneaking mission just seem to conflict with everything in Act 1. Someone couldn't decide what this was, or was being told it had to be a certain thing. The escape from the building in Act 1 is the worst, most hideous, example of this. Snake making his way all around and around a building to get out, because he can't jump anything that's waist high, with the most basic AI repeating the same patterns over and over and Snake not having decent firefight controls is the height of where this all went wrong. Control works for MGS type stuff? Maybe, but what the hell is this section?

Act 2 at least sets up some sneaking. But it seems Kojima got tops on level design from Square. It's all path, path, open area for encounter, path, path, open area for encounter and repeat. You could interchange the map with Crisis Core and nobody would notice. Piss poor design. And then a repetitive and unimaginative on-rails shooting bit.

Act 3 is like the equivalent of one mission in an entire GTA game. It would count as about .5% of the game in GTA but it's a whole act here. I'll mark spoilers even for gameplay from here (and of course story).

->Open Spoiler<-

One single 'follow this guy' run in a city that doesn't in any way feel like it was ever lived in, in spite of the photographic textures. A bloody massive conversation. And then yet another repetitive and unimaginative on-rails shooting bit. And that's it for the entire act. Oh, there's a boss fight too actually.

So maybe it's one and a bit missions from GTA.

Now at this point, I was close to just chucking it in. And I think, had I done so, I would have been pretty justified saying that this 'game' is an utter pile of steaming crap. But I was so close to just getting to the bloody end of this chore and finding out what happens to Snake that I went on. I had invested play in MGS1, 2, 3 and half of this so...

Act 4, in a surprise move, contains some gameplay.

->Open Spoiler<-

Yeah the nostalgic setting helps, but it also reminds me what's missing - avoiding cameras, guards, using chaff grenades, stun grenades, scanning for mines, setting up C4, Nikita missiles, etc, etc, etc. You know, like, sneaking missions. That thing Otocon said we were on at the start. Would be fine if all that gameplay was replaced by something else but all we get in the place of all that is octocamo. But there are some good gameplay sections in here. Just a few but, still, better than nothing, eh? Two decent boss fights. Okay, so the Rex bit going up the same corridor over and over was cheap and rubbish (repeating the same sections seems to be this game's trademark) but, once out in the open, it got better.

Yeah, there's a game here.

Act 5

->Open Spoiler<-

has just one tiny barely structured sneaking section and two boss fights, one of which looks pretty but is rubbish to play. That's it. For the whole act. Oh, but it takes about three hours to get through with the amount of cut scenes.

And on the cut scenes - perhaps I should have mentioned them talking about Act 3 because that was the first one that felt like there was much more watching than playing. The cut scenes look pretty. Clearly, these are where all the work went because some of the textures in the gameplay sections are seriously nasty (best looking game? Not a bloody chance. Nice looking movies, average looking game). Okay so we all knew a huge percentage of this game was going to be cut scenes, not game. But, on top of that, it turns out that a huge percentage of the cut scenes are just a few people talking. Over and over. Conversations that go on for 20 minutes that have about 30 seconds worth of information or story. These people don't shut up. And most of it is boring as hell. And yet there's the fear that if I skip them, I'll miss that important nugget in the 30 seconds of actual info buried in there.

So there were a few good

->Open Spoiler<-

Raiden

fights to watch and the rest just ended up a search for cleavage shots or camel-toe to pass the time while these people waffled on about cack I didn't care about. Far too overwritten. For a game with some excellent characters and mythology, there was no need for it. They... just... wouldn't... shut... up.

And they weren't half as emotional as I think Kojima thinks they were.

All I really got out of playing this was an end to the story.

Everything else was pretty rubbish. And, like that Penny Arcade quote above, I don't know if there is even any point in saying it. There's always differences of opinion with games. That's normal and there's nothing wrong with that. But this leaves me baffled. For people who are games players, like people here, to say this is the best anything just baffles me. I haven't played a game with a worse control system or level design in years. Maybe one exists, but I haven't played it. This game is wrong in so many ways. So many. And yet there are people gushing all over it. I can only think it comes down to that Penny Arcade quote because difference of opinion just doesn't seem enough to explain it.

I can't help feeling it's pumping out some Videodrome signal that I'm immune to or you've all been paid off or Kojima has threatened your familes or something.

Baffled. Totally, utterly baffled.

[BeyondJumpFish]

YES! I completely agree with everything you've said Dogg Thang! And you said it better then i could have. Its almost as if Kojima just made it to finish off the franchise and change the gameplay elements for the next people who are going to make a MGS game. Its the worsed one. It goes MGS, then MGS3: snake eater, then MGS2 then this IMO.

[kernow]

I don't have a problem with the controls, its staple Metal Gear solid stuff really.

As said before I did find it a bit pretentious in parts.

[kernow]

Just started act 2 again, and while I sort of understand the 'egg symbolism' I do not get for the life of me why

->Open Spoiler<-

she sings numbers like that

[Largo]

Just started act 2 again, and while I sort of understand the 'egg symbolism' I do not get for the life of me why

->Open Spoiler<-

she sings numbers like that

i tried putting them into the password bit on the extras menu, no joy tho

[kernow]

massive spoiler site http://www.cheatcc.com/ps3/metalgear...eatscodes.html

(hmm, seems URL's dont work in spoiler tags, oh well, don't click it if you haven't finished.. ok? )

uhm, trying to get the

->Open Spoiler<-

camera on the act 2 briefing, is it possible yet or too early?

[Uli]

started with this yesterday and have to say i'm a little underwhelmed. the one and only climax so far was the early and mostly scripted encounter with the Geckos we all knew already. but i'm still on Act 1 and hopefully gameplay and events will get more interesting.

controls work better than before but are still far too fiddly to match the amount of action going on in case you got spotted. i think what this game needs for me was a Rainbow Six Vegas-style view system that automatically shifts from 1st to 3rd person when in cover mode.

i've noticed that you can't zoom in and out of cutscenes anymore and i wonder why is that? it's been a cool feature in MGS3 and underlined that the cutscenes were realtime and in-game engine rendered.

[NekoFever]

If we're doing the 'rank the MGS games' thing, I'd put it like this:

MGS3 Subsistence > MGS4 > MGS > MGS2

I like them all a lot, but when I replayed them last year I didn't think the first two had aged particularly well, the original in particular. The 3D camera in Subsistence was the single biggest improvement and, coupled with the fantastic story (by far the best MGS in that respect for me), put it in front. I didn't think MGS4 ever quite reached the heights set by the first two acts (speaking overall, because there were still plenty of individual high points in 3-5), but it was the first one to really advance the gameplay and I loved it.

Yeah, it felt like it was checking boxes to show what happened with certain characters occasionally, but that was simply the fault of Kojima leaving way too many loose ends in the previous games. I don't hold it against this one because I'd have been more annoyed not to have certain things finished off.

It's certainly a flawed gem. Presentationally it's impeccable, but now that I've got past that and had some time to reflect I can see where the 8/10s were coming from.

[kernow]

Just found the

->Open Spoiler<-

battery on the act 2 briefing downstairs, I hear this makes all battery powered objects last twice as long, nice, bumped into a few people and got a few face camos also

[kernow]

i've noticed that you can't zoom in and out of cutscenes anymore and i wonder why is that? it's been a cool feature in MGS3 and underlined that the cutscenes were realtime and in-game engine rendered.

->Open Spoiler<-

press up on the dpad, you can move around with the right analogue stick

[kernow]

woo got the

->Open Spoiler<-

camera on act 2, I hear if I waited until act 4 it'd have more pictures on it, oh well

[JP]

Just started act 2 again, and while I sort of understand the 'egg symbolism' I do not get for the life of me why

->Open Spoiler<-

she sings numbers like that

The numbers aren't random numbers.

->Open Spoiler<-

There are two lots of numbers she sings, one is the Fibonacci sequence & the other are a series from the first 10'000 digits of PI. There's a part where she sings from the periodic table later on too.

I felt it referred to the fact that everything including music, frying eggs & genetic engineering can be broken down into pure mathematics if you know what you're doing.

The music is the same music that the resistance member whistles too.