Left 4 Dead

[Riskbreaker]

I've never had peanut butter on crumpets. Is that good, bad or like marmite?

[FreelancePolice]

But are you saying it doesn't have legs in a time span or gameplay span?

We played the demo to death at lunch times and the same can be said about the full game. It won't be long before its out lasted the length of a regular £40 game. The pricing is moot for me as I know i'll get easily twice as long as I'll get out of other high profile priced games.

@chain
Didn't you want to get it on PC anyway? That should settle your worry about lack of long term content as valve will no doubt be using their TF2 model and we'll see new maps before long, followed by additional weapons and hopefully boss infected!

[spagmasterswift]

I've never had peanut butter on crumpets. Is that good, bad or like marmite?

I trust you will go try some before you come in here trying to compare it to Marmite - DAMN!!

[Brats]

You were saying how this game will last you forever and coparing it to Halo which you played for 5 years. So yes, in a roundabout way, you're saying you may well be playing this game in 5 years. And my point is after one week, it's far too early to proclaim that. It's like going on a first date and wanting to get engaged. People are all too quick to declare greatness.

I never said the game would last forever. I said it's longevity was assured which is quite a difference. I also compared the feeling the game is giving me to the time I played Halo co-op (a game which I did continue to play for five years) as a positive sign of this longevity. If you've inferred something different from what I clearly said then you've taken 2 + 2 and made 29.

Wow, you really don't like anyone questioning the lifetime of this game do you? A couple of people who have the game are saying, "You know, this may not have legs" and given reasons why. So I found their comments interesting. More grounded than the usual forum GOTFY hyperbole. We all know half the people gushing over this will have moved on to the Next Big Thing within 2 weeks.

No, it's not that I don't like anyone questioning it, but I dislike the view that a game is not value for money because it only has a certain amount of levels, made by someone who hasn't played it and seems to be happy to ignore or rebuff any kind of argument to contrary. Games shouldn't be assessed on a sheet of paper - they must be played and enjoyed. There's too many variables that make big differences that mean it's impossible to get an opinion of a game by looking at the back of the box. Even I'm too wise to know that.

The gushing about this game is somewhat above the standard hyperbole that surrounds any new release - anyone can see that. The press (who have had access to the game for much longer than us) have been gushing about it too. On 1up for instance they have been playing the game constantly for weeks and saying that they still love it to bits.

And this is right in the middle of a brilliant season for games from people who have access to every game available.

[Matt]

But are you saying it doesn't have legs in a time span or gameplay span?

We played the demo to death at lunch times and the same can be said about the full game. It won't be long before its out lasted the length of a regular ?40 game. The pricing is moot for me as I know i'll get easily twice as long as I'll get out of other high profile priced games.

@chain
Didn't you want to get it on PC anyway? That should settle your worry about lack of long term content as valve will no doubt be using their TF2 model and we'll see new maps before long, followed by additional weapons and hopefully boss infected!

Mate, I'm not saying one thing either way. Brats was saying this game will be played for a long time (he "assured" us), and I simply said such a statement is premature.

The PC version is my preference, but now I'm back gaming with my old Gears buddies, the appeal of L4D with that crowd is drawing me to the 360 version. Ideally I'd get both as it happens, but financially that's not viable. I'm now in a holding pattern until the 360 hits ?25, and then I'll see what Valve are up to with patches and updates before making my final decision.

[FreelancePolice]

fair enough, on the subject of ntsc goty type messages - is that such a bad thing? There's nothing like gushing over a release that your personally enjoying. I'm just as guilty as others and frankly I enjoy it.

I don't approve of jumping on others who disagree but I will try and convince others who are on the fence (such as yourself) as it's what I truly believe.

[Brats]

Mate, I'm not saying one thing either way. Brats was saying this game will be played for a long time (he "assured" us), and I simply said such a statement is premature.

Well, no that's not the full story. You were saying that you wouldn't buy the game until the price was reduced as you didn't think it was value for money. I said that it was, because although it only has for maps, there are lots of other elements that mean it will have a long shelf life (which lots of other people had been saying too of course).

Rather than giving us the basic courtesy and acknowledging our points (about a game you haven't played), you start chucking accusations around about being premature, whilst simultaneiously failing to specifically counter argue the points being made. You then start putting words in my mouth and only acknowledge the few people who happen to back up your (completely presumptive) view.

I have no problem with someone not liking L4D. I just have a problem with someone partly judging the game without having played it and then accusing those who have as "premature". The sheer arrogance of that is mind blowing!

[PeteJ]

I played through No Mercy in Versus last night, utterly sublime stuff. Being the infected and griefing the survivers is SO much fun. All the classes are great to use (though the tank is quite tricky), but my fave has to be the Smoker because you can seriously **** up a team with a good pull. The Hunter is great fun moving about but you have to pick your targets more carefully since you are very easy to kill when attacking. The Boomer is awesome for ticking up points, especially if used in combo with another class.

It's so satisfying knowing that you've just ruined somebody's game, knowing that in five minutes time they'll be trying to do the same back to you. Normally this kind of thing sucks, but not here

[Matt]

fair enough, on the subject of ntsc goty type messages - is that such a bad thing? There's nothing like gushing over a release that your personally enjoying. I'm just as guilty as others and frankly I enjoy it.

I don't approve of jumping on others who disagree but I will try and convince others who are on the fence (such as yourself) as it's what I truly believe.

Please do tell us who don't have it how great it is! The reviews are very convincing. Personally, I find I won't listen to someone who automatically declares GOTY after an hour play, but each to their own. Hearing people here say how great a game this is has me wanting to play it sooner rather than later. At the same time, a few people who have the game, voicing the concerns I have WITHOUT playing, are valid.

I find myself increasingly tired of hyperbole and posters fornicating over every big new release. Look at the games this year that were proclaimed to be amazing and have "longevity" and are now seemingly rarely played. I think some people could do with learning a little moderation and keeping things in perspective. This was once a very mature forum, while now a lot of people are buying in to hype. Excitement and anticipation are, it would seem, a large part of gaming - possibly more important than the game itself, judging by some.

Actually, Brats, some reviews have commented on the value aspect of it, and that it feels like a HL2 mod. It's a valid discussion to have. Add the fact the 360 version is twice the price, with further map pack costs down the line, and the discussion becomes even more important. A whole discussion on the difference of values between the gaming formats would seem the way to go.

[Brats]

I think the point about value in games is up for a discussion. My patented videogames value-ometer goes something like:

Fun of game x longevity
-----------------------
Cost

On the subject of hyperbole, I think you are being very harsh on the other members of this forum. Generally the views are fairly on the money. Show me a thread where everyone was going bananas over an average game because I can't think of one (seriously, please do).

Personally, I rarely post my views in First Play unless I have something interesting to say. I rarely post that a game is amazing, so when I do I really mean it.

L4D is one of those times.

[Matt]

Well, no that's not the full story. You were saying that you wouldn't buy the game until the price was reduced as you didn't think it was value for money. I said that it was, because although it only has for maps, there are lots of other elements that mean it will have a long shelf life (which lots of other people had been saying too of course).

Rather than giving us the basic courtesy and acknowledging our points (about a game you haven't played), you start chucking accusations around about being premature, whilst simultaneiously failing to specifically counter argue the points being made. You then start putting words in my mouth and only acknowledge the few people who happen to back up your (completely presumptive) view.

I have no problem with someone not liking L4D. I just have a problem with someone partly judging the game without having played it and then accusing those who have as "premature". The sheer arrogance of that is mind blowing!

Seriously, anyone who has played a game a week and saying "longevity is assured" is being premature. It's too bold a statement. Your "points" become moot (again, imo) the second you proclaimed "longevity is assured" for the reasons I've explained.

I'm not being arrogant at all. I'm voicing concerns. Mate, and this will sound arrogant, I think you need a dictionary to help you define words such as "arrogant" and "classic", as you're using them in an incorrect way.

That's all I have to say to you on this matter. Hope the game does last your forever, and I hope it's as good as people say. When I do get it, however, I won't make such grandiose statements after one week.

[Brats]

Seriously, anyone who has played a game a week and saying "longevity is assured" is being premature. It's too bold a statement. Your "points" become moot (again, imo) the second you proclaimed "longevity is assured" for the reasons I've explained.

That's rubbish. People with experience can make claims about such things. Else why bother having critics at all - surely anything anyone says after the release of anything is premature.

It's called 'judgement'. Were all the people that posted Super Mario Galaxy was a GOTY premature? Like hell they were. There's a clear difference in the tone and level of appreciation in that thread comapred to most others, so your point that every game is declared the best thing ever on NTSC-UK is simply wrong.

And my points back up my judgement. That you chose to ignore them is only because you have a strange outlook on whether anyone can make a judgement or not (which is frankly bizarre).

I'm not being arrogant at all. I'm voicing concerns. Mate, and this will sound arrogant, I think you need a dictionary to help you define words such as "arrogant" and "classic", as you're using them in an incorrect way.

You're voicing concerns, but in a very arrogant way. It's not me that needs the dictionary. I'd never have the state of mind to post on a forum criticising most of its members. You seem happy to do it at a moments notice. I'm not the first to point this out either.

[vanpeebles]

Guys! Guys! It's ok, you're both stuffy hot farts.

[Matt]

You're voicing concerns, but in a very arrogant way. It's not me that needs the dictionary. I'd never have the state of mind to post on a forum criticising most of its members. You seem happy to do it at a moments notice. I'm not the first to point this out either.

Yes yes I said I was leaving him alone, but I'm not going to be accused of insulting "most" of the forum members without hitting back....

There needs to be another thread about hyperbole and how people are too quick to label things GOTY, Classic, or whatever. Because it does happen, and it's happening more and more. I know I'm not the only one to notice it. It's not exclusive to NTSCuk, it's happening all over the show. Simply saying that some members in here are prone to hyperbole is stating the truth. Sorry if that offends anyone, but I don't see why it should. Others have stated that some people are too quick to proclaim GOTY only to move on to another GOTY 2 weeks later.

I'm not the kind to jump to grandiose statements, but then I've never been premature in life

I'd like to see a return to common sense and thoughtfulness. Not a bad thing surely? This game may well be The Best Thing Ever, but regardless of how experienced and educated you think you are, surely if you were more experienced and educated you'd understand such a statement can't be justified after a week? Just as someone watching a film and saying, "Instant classic" - true greatness can only be judged over time, once the initial "wow" factor has worn off. You need time to put these things in to context.

As I say, "common sense and thoughtfulness". Less hyperbole, less buying in to the hype machine. If it's a great game, get on here and shout IT'S A GREAT GAME. That's what we all want to hear - we all want great games. But use a bit of sense and stop short of unsubstantiated statements.

[ezee ryder]

I was doubting the lifespan of this game earlier on in the thread, saying it would be one I would pick up when it is cheap. Well I did manage to get it fairly cheap on the weekend and it is really really good.

I have only played No Mercy and the one in the forest (forget its name!), each have been a different experience everytime. I have Resistance 2, Tomb Raider Underworld and Gears of War 2 multiplayer waiting for me but I kept getting drawn back into this. Dunno about game of the year but it is certainly one of the best mulitplayer games out there, top notch.