Left 4 Dead

[Brats]

It's premature to say "longevity is assured". That's like proclaiming a film a classic after watching it at launch.

Naaaah, it?s not the same. Saying a film is a classic is purely subjective. Analysing a game for longevity has a certain amount of objectivity to it as you can compare it to other games. Playing L4D gives me the same feeling as when I played the original Halo in co-op. I ended up playing that game for five years ? I must have played Assault on the Control Room over fifty times. L4D is the first game since then to capture that.

I'm sure it's a great game, Valve could polish a turd in to a diamond. I'm just not sure it has long term appeal.

Co-op is always fun. Take the crappest game in the world, chuck in co-op, and it'll probably be a hoot. My concerns with this game are repetition. 4 scenarios doing, I believe, the same thing over and over - shooting zombies.

I agree with your point about co-op making any game better ? I?ve been enjoying Mercs 2 in co-op even though it is a broken, janky game. However I can easily differentiate between a game where co-op is enjoyable despite it?s deficiencies and one that has none. If I were to list the flaws with L4D it would be a blank list. It has to been honed to perfection. There are so many little touches that we will see other games employ in the future.

That is a blast no doubt, but long term? I also don't think it's enough to warrant a full game RRP, not when games like Gears2 are throwing similar modes in as extras - this isn't something that new after all, look at UT and the Invasion mode in that.

Hoard mode in GOW2 is great, but this is on another level. The whole game has been built on co-op from the ground up. Even complete strangers are forced to play as a team, but not in a contrived ?use another player to hitch over the tall wall? kind of way. L4D is a pure shooter with nothing flabby about it and yet they have managed to force players to work together in a way that is completely natural. It?s a real first.

And a big, big issue I have it paying twice as much for the 360 version just because it's the version my mates have. I'd prefer the PC version, but socially would have more fun with the 360. So I pay twice as much, then get fleeced for map packs down the line.

Them?s the breaks. You mean you haven?t managed to convince all your friends to buy a ?500 gaming PC?

Financially, I'm sure a lot of us have to take replay in to account when weighing up what titles to buy. We're not all accountants I'm sure, just people careful with money

I don?t disagree, but your ignoring virtually all the comments made by people who have actually played the game for a length of time, from gamers to critics. I haven?t seen a comment yet from anyone that the game has an issue with longevity. It?s worth noting that the four maps are brilliant. In my experience of online shooters, most players tend to stick to the same small number of maps anyway, even when there are loads on offer.

Now come on, you know full well you can't compare a game to a movie.

In this example it?s completely valid. We?re talking about the physical length of a piece of entertainment versus its enjoyment. My point is that you can?t measure the longevity or sheer brilliance of a game by not playing it fully and making a judgment from the numbers on the back of the box.

[rmoxon]

Hoard mode in GOW2 is great, but this is on another level. The whole game has been built on co-op from the ground up. Even complete strangers are forced to play as a team, but not in a contrived ?use another player to hitch over the tall wall? kind of way. L4D is a pure shooter with nothing flabby about it and yet they have managed to force players to work together in a way that is completely natural. It?s a real first.

While the game is different to the horde mode from Gears 2 in its structure, saying you have to work more as a team in this is simpley wrong. Infact if anything Horde requires more teamwork than this, as anyone who has played it knows that unless you play left 4 dead on the highest difficulty level the game lacks challenge, even when playing on your own with the computer A.I, who hang back and basicaly let you complete the entire game on your own.

In many respects Left 4 Dead features the kind of simple shooting gameplay that FPS' s strayed away from when most developers realised that they probabaly couldnt top Quake 2. In fact you could say that if that game had had alot more enemies and the option for coperative play it would have played much like this one, hence why this isnt very original at all really. The only reason you need to work as a team on the higest difficulty is becuase you will die if you try and kill every enemy alone.

[Brats]

You're wrong there. The mere fact that the hunters and smokers can incapacitate a player so that they need rescuing before they are killed. Even on the easier difficulties, a player is still vulnerable to a hidden hunter and will need rescuing.

It's obviously acceptable to dislike L4D, but to say it is not original at all is just simply wrong.

[spagmasterswift]

Having played through all four 'movies' I've been pretty stunned by how good the game is, not just how it looks (head shots & fire effects are particularly worth a mention), but the unexpected moments that occur which are really more than the sum of its parts and often magical. There have been plenty. Last night 3 of us were making an heroic last stand in an old house (we had tried balancing on beams in the barn previously thinking we had out foxed the Tank - but Tank climb, Tank SMASH) and discovered an upstairs closet. We all got in closing the door behind us. Standing in there, in the darkness thinking about the zombie infested world outside, a world completely gone to ****, a world that has forced us, grown men to hide in a cupboard.

I'm still a little unconvinced about the longevity of this one. I'm already throwing petrol cans around to start unnecessary fires and unwisely trying to fist fight my way through encounters, which suggests to me I'm after more than there is on offer here. When its random and chaotic its fantastic, I just fear that the spell wont last much longer.

[Matt]

Brats, the game has barely been released. Anyone proclaiming this game will last them 5 years is judging it far too early.

Saying a film is a classic is purely subjective

You really can't say anything is a classic until a good amount of time has passed. That's what the word "classic" means!

Interesting comments from Rmoxon and Spags.

[Brats]

Brats, the game has barely been released. Anyone proclaiming this game will last them 5 years is judging it far too early.

I clearly didn't say that.

Interesting comments from Rmoxon and Spags.

You mean interesting that you pay attention to their comments and yet ignore everyone elses?

[Rick]

I like it. We played a 4 player LAN all day on Sunday and had a great time. despite Steam being awful to use.

It needs more game modes without a doubt. And it needs more weapons.

Vs mode sucks.

[spagmasterswift]

L4D is a pure shooter with nothing flabby about it and yet they have managed to force players to work together in a way that is completely natural.

I agree here. Part of the satisfaction is protecting your team, not just saving them from a hunter or smoker, but taking down a regular zombie unseen by them, something that probably only you experienced because they're attention was elsewhere at the time.

We had a run through where I healed my team mate without realising he was going for the 'no health pack' achievement (a 'favour' returned to me by an over enthusiastic AI character later that night), after apologising to him for being a total nub we tried it again. The pressure to watch his back was even greater. I had the same feeling after following around AI Francis whose life was very low ready to revive him each time he was down so I could get the appropriate achievement. Despite having allowed him to be attacked for most of the game, once the achievement had popped I felt gratitude to him, to the point that I battled through waves of zombies to try and rescue him from a witch when I should have been jumping into the safehouse. This is at the heart of L4D imo, its very similar to Rainbow 6 Vegas but you have many, many more chances to be the hero!

[MattyD]

Only friendless dullards could think this game isn't amazing fun. If you want an intense but fun game to play online, especially in co-op, there's simply nothing better than this. It's a constant source of laughs and surprises.

[Kit]

Man, this is absolutely bloody hilarious fun.

Me and my Steam buddies decided expert was the way to go ; the idea being our CS experience would make it a breeze - Boy were we wrong.

We managed to scrape through the second stage of No Mercy having taken down two tanks, six or so hunters and a handful of smokers. Down one player, limping and on 1 hp we were just about to enter the safe house when out of no where another hunter jumped my team. I shot the hunter off my buddy as he screamed on his mic “HELP!!!”

I tried to pick him up but before he got to his feet a smoker grabbed the player behind me! Just when you thought things couldn‘t get any worse Null, the downed player, shot the car alarm... I swear I‘ve never laughed so hard at a game in my life.

I turned around and ran for the safe house while both shouted on their mics “BOO DON’T BE A HERO RUN!” haha…

Game of the year no doubt.

[FreelancePolice]

despite Steam being awful to use.
.

What in particular do you find so hard to use about it?

[SuperBeatBoy]

I love this game so much i'm going to buy a 360 version and copy for my bro for christmas. Its going to be fantastic fun.

[Riskbreaker]

I've decided who the real enemy is in this game. It's not the AI director, it's the AI teammates. Played the finale's for No Mercy and The Harvest with my bro last night and each time the AI teammates would dash towards the rescue vehicle without so much as a glance in the direction of their human comrades being swamped in hordes of the undead.

Take "No Harvest". We had the ideal setup. As we swept the farm house for supplies there were four pipe bombs sat on a table upstairs. So we made the decision to hole up in the bedroom nearest the pipebombs, that way any zombie storm that got out of control could be handled by distracting them with the pipebombs. The plan was perfect, with us using pipebombs to divert zombies away during ammo runs and buy us enough time to heal and regain our composure. Even the Tanks were handled without too much grief. Then the rescue vehicle arrived, at which point Louis and Francis promptly disappeared nowhere to be seen. In the ensuing confusion we decided it was time to bug out and leapt from the bedroom window to make a dash for the vehicle. Bill (my bro) is limping slowly and gets wrestled to the ground by some zombies, rather than slow down to save him he yells at me to get to the vehicle. I struggle towards the APC with no Louis or Francis in sight, Bill is gone likely buried under a mountain of zombies and whatever is chasing me keeps pulling me back. I reach the entrance to the APC only to realise it's game over anyway, there is a Tank pounding the side of the vehicle. As my screen blacks out and the APC drives we see Louis sat quite calmly inside making no effort at all to save any one else. He must have reached the APC as soon as it arrived. Everyone else was as good as dead.

And that's not a one off, it happens pretty much anytime teammate AI is involved. I'm starting to think that this is a deliberate effort by Valve to show that the best survivors in any given situation are the most selfish ones It's funny how you spend the whole scenario thinking the AI is there to help you through only for it to completely ditch your useless ass at the last moment.

To quote the guy from the youtube clip doing the rounds, they used us like a pipebomb.

[Matt]

I clearly didn't say that.

You were saying how this game will last you forever and coparing it to Halo which you played for 5 years. So yes, in a roundabout way, you're saying you may well be playing this game in 5 years. And my point is after one week, it's far too early to proclaim that. It's like going on a first date and wanting to get engaged. People are all too quick to declare greatness.

I'm not saying either way you see. I've not got it yet. And when I do get, even if it blows me away, I'm too wise to declare "longevity is assured". If I'm still playing it regularly in 6 months time, then your statements may be justified.

You mean interesting that you pay attention to their comments and yet ignore everyone elses?

Wow, you really don't like anyone questioning the lifetime of this game do you? A couple of people who have the game are saying, "You know, this may not have legs" and given reasons why. So I found their comments interesting. More grounded than the usual forum GOTFY hyperbole. We all know half the people gushing over this will have moved on to the Next Big Thing within 2 weeks.

[spagmasterswift]

Come on guys, what we really need to determine, while we are in a good discussing mood, is whether this game is a Classic Film or a First Date that will bloom into an Engagement.

I see it as a peanut butter on crumpets personally.