Nintendo Switch 2: Thread 01

[wakka]

You can now enter for a chance to try out the Switch 2 at Nintendo's event at the Excel in April:

https://www.nintendo.com/en-gb/Campaigns/Nintendo-Switch-2-Experience-London-2722997.html

Most times are on Saturday or Sunday. I tried for the Friday afternoon one as I felt it might get slightly fewer entries.

If you're selected, you can bring up to five guests - but they have to be part of your Nintendo Account Family. Since my only immediate family member is my dog, and she's always been firmly Xbox, I didn't bother to add any guests.

[egparadigm]

Threw my hat in the ring even though this seems like a long way to go for a slightly bigger switch. 👍🏻

I also went with Friday afternoon, but there may be an uplift from those wanting the “first first” look. 👀

[Dogg Thang]

Threw my hat in the ring even though this seems like a long way to go for a slightly bigger switch. 👍🏻

Just to have a go of the slightly bigger Switch. It's like a gameshow having a prize of going to look at a boat. Or to browse a holiday brochure.

[wargame]

Is the Switch console form factor one of Nintendo's best ideas? It's looking like it isn't it? Mixes most of its historic wins into one console. Handheld, TV console, motion controls etc. I understand that some people are a bit disappointment that the Switch 2 is a safe move i.e. no crazy new peripherals etc, but maybe Nintendo have hit the real sweet spot with Switch.

Are you happy with Switch 2 or did you want something different? Maybe a more traditional under-the-TV console with enough oomph to put even PS5 in the mud?

It's exactly what I wanted and I bet a large contingent of people out there. The form factor/gimmick is their thing, their USP. No need to divide Dev teams between portable and home console.

Similar form factor, more powerful and backwards compatiblity. For Ninty it's all about their games and the only thing that gets me to stop playing SF6 (which is all my PS5 does) is something with Mario in it.

[wakka]

Is the Switch console form factor one of Nintendo's best ideas? It's looking like it isn't it? Mixes most of its historic wins into one console. Handheld, TV console, motion controls etc. I understand that some people are a bit disappointment that the Switch 2 is a safe move i.e. no crazy new peripherals etc, but maybe Nintendo have hit the real sweet spot with Switch.

Are you happy with Switch 2 or did you want something different? Maybe a more traditional under-the-TV console with enough oomph to put even PS5 in the mud?

It's definitely an inspired design and one of Nintendo's very best, and I absolutely wouldn't want a traditional under-the-TV console that's similar to the PS5. The other two major consoles on the market are already that and are functionally identical to one another, so a third really would be gilding the lily.

But yeah, I'm the minority that would have preferred something more imaginative. I do think Nintendo are unique in the gaming hardware space in that they have a proven capability to surprise (and delight).

I think if you'd asked most people what they wanted out of the next Gameboy during the GBA's life, very few would have said an oddball clamshell with touchscreen. They'd probably have described something much closer to what the PSP delivered. And yet the DS was great fun.

You lot probably know I love digging into the inside baseball side of things and what strategically makes sense for hardware makers and publishers. But just speaking purely as a player, I think something brand new, surprising and, yeah, maybe a little weird is a lot more exciting and fun.

I'll absolutely buy a Switch 2 and I'll have fun. But I'm really looking forward to Nintendo's next big idea, too. Because we won't have asked for it, but when we see it, I bet we'll want it!

[fishbowlhead]

Main thing I’m happy about is BC for my physical collection. As for getting one, I’m not too bothered about a new MK to be honest, I’ll wait and see what else they have for launch.

[JU!]

Looks interesting, wondering how they will implement different colours. Will they just change stick colours or whole Joycon like last time.

[egparadigm]

Looks interesting, wondering how they will implement different colours. Will they just change stick colours or whole Joycon like last time.

Gotta be the latter, just changing the neck of the sticks wouldn’t be different enough, surely.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.eurogamer.net/if-switch-2-is-the-end-of-innovative-nintendo-theres-much-to-be-sad-about

Stupid take, Nintendo has not innovated just as many times as it has innovated with its hardware. The innovative attempts have ariund a 50% hit rate of blowing up in their face too. Gimmicking for the sake of it will always be a dumb move

[fishbowlhead]

https://www.eurogamer.net/if-switch-...o-be-sad-about
Stupid take, Nintendo has not innovated just as many times as it has innovated with its hardware. The innovative attempts have ariund a 50% hit rate of blowing up in their face too. Gimmicking for the sake of it will always be a dumb move

Pointless click bait as usual from eurogamer.

[wakka]

I don't agree with you guys, I think a lot of that article makes sense. New ways to play are in Nintendo's DNA, and as I've said before, the numbers don't lie - it's consistently their more conservative consoles that sell fewer. This is a company that absolutely saved its own bacon with the DS and the Wii, and again with the Switch. Developing hardware that's unique and dramatically different to their competitors is, I'd argue, the primary reason they're as relevant as they are today.

One bit I don't agree with, though, is the handwringing that now we'll just have Switch after Switch until the Earth expires in the heat death of the sun. The Switch 2's iterative design is right in line with the 'tick, tock' schedule Nintendo have subscribed to since the 2000s - a console that brings a new idea, followed by a direct sequel, followed by a console that brings a new idea.

One thing I do see people say here and elsewhere is that they shouldn't make something new, because they should keep making convertible handheld/home console hybrids. To which I say, I absolutely agree that they should keep making hybrids, and that I've no doubt that there is plenty their hardware designers could do within that format that doesn't look or feel exactly like a Switch any more. New ideas and a hybrid format aren't mutually exclusive.

In the end, Nintendo's hand will be forced I think. My view is that longer term, the hybrid concept the Switch ushered in is going to become a lot more popular for gaming generally. When we have the PlayStation Switch and Nintendo's offering is no longer unique, they will need to bring something new to the table anyway.

The innovative attempts have ariund a 50% hit rate of blowing up in their face too.

50% of their consoles have blown up in their face due to innovative ideas? I'm gonna need a citation on that lol.

[Neon Ignition]

Nintendo's iteration hasn't entirely been due to the companies intent though. The N64 wasn't unsuccessful because it wasn't innovative, it was unsuccessful because Nintendo overpriced, chose the wrong storage medium and alienated half the development market through its practices in the previous gens. In hardware they only really began wildly rethinking the nature of how consoles are delivered with the Wii which was around 5 gens in, they innovated with the WiiU because they then had the impression that they needed to deliver a USP because that was expected and the 360/PS3 had eaten up the traditional space - when really a straight up Wii 2 was likely the better pitch. Their innovations are often simply reactions to their position in the games market.

The Virtual Boy, WiiU and (to an extent) 3DS all introduced gimmicks for the sake of having something unique and paid the price of it. It's a notably unfair position for Nintendo in many ways because Sony literally just needs to slap a 6 on their next machine and their requirements are met. Like you say, Sony releasing their own handheld variant might force their hand but it's that certaintity that a Sony version existing somehow mandates that Nintendo will have to do something unique other than slap a 3 on their next system which feels misplaced.

Really, Nintendo has had three mega-hit consoles. The Wii, the DS and the Switch. The Wii was unique gimmick led and a big hit because of it but one other key factor was also true of that - it's audience entirely abandoned it by the end of its life. The tiny WiiU sales weren't solely due to that consoles mis-pitching, the wind was going out of the Wii's sails before the WiiU released because it leant so much on appealing to non-gamers who didn't stick with the hobby. The DS was a similar curveball, similarly pitched and to a degree saw the same outcome till Nintendo slashed the 3DS's pricing, the Wii and DS were comrades in arms, benefitting from the bubble era they co-existed in. The Switch isn't the same proposition, it's unique pitch was being able to play your home games on the go - outside of that one point it's an incredibly traditional console experience which, after five generations, has finally seen Nintendo reclaim major traditional console territory. With so much consumer loyality being tied to their online accounts etc and the ecosystems they are used to it feels, to me, that Nintendo would have been utterly stupid to throw a curveball with Switch 2 and unless their sales suffer a major decline, they should take Sony's lead and stick with what works because they're heavily on course to be one of only two companies left standing in the console space. They have no end of peripheral and software options to demonstrate their innovation with.

[Finsbury Girl]

Looks like Switch 1.5 (not saying its a bad thing) but I wonder what they've held back. This will be my first Ninty handheld since my beloved GBA (RIP buddy ).

BC is ideal for me as there are plenty of titles I need to catch up on I'll most likely go physical - do they ship games complete or are there annoying updates to download?

[fishbowlhead]

Looks like Switch 1.5 (not saying its a bad thing) but I wonder what they've held back. This will be my first Ninty handheld since my beloved GBA (RIP buddy ).

BC is ideal for me as there are plenty of titles I need to catch up on I'll most likely go physical - do they ship games complete or are there annoying updates to download?

There’s not been a 1st party game that doesn’t work day 1 off the cart, watch out for 3rd party though. Though even 1st party games games have had patches, Tears of the Kingdom had a pretty significant performance patch day 1 off the top of my head.

[wakka]

Nintendo's iteration hasn't entirely been due to the companies intent though. The N64 wasn't unsuccessful because it wasn't innovative, it was unsuccessful because Nintendo overpriced, chose the wrong storage medium and alienated half the development market through its practices in the previous gens. In hardware they only really began wildly rethinking the nature of how consoles are delivered with the Wii which was around 5 gens in, they innovated with the WiiU because they then had the impression that they needed to deliver a USP because that was expected and the 360/PS3 had eaten up the traditional space - when really a straight up Wii 2 was likely the better pitch. Their innovations are often simply reactions to their position in the games market.

The Virtual Boy, WiiU and (to an extent) 3DS all introduced gimmicks for the sake of having something unique and paid the price of it. It's a notably unfair position for Nintendo in many ways because Sony literally just needs to slap a 6 on their next machine and their requirements are met. Like you say, Sony releasing their own handheld variant might force their hand but it's that certaintity that a Sony version existing somehow mandates that Nintendo will have to do something unique other than slap a 3 on their next system which feels misplaced.

Really, Nintendo has had three mega-hit consoles. The Wii, the DS and the Switch. The Wii was unique gimmick led and a big hit because of it but one other key factor was also true of that - it's audience entirely abandoned it by the end of its life. The tiny WiiU sales weren't solely due to that consoles mis-pitching, the wind was going out of the Wii's sails before the WiiU released because it leant so much on appealing to non-gamers who didn't stick with the hobby. The DS was a similar curveball, similarly pitched and to a degree saw the same outcome till Nintendo slashed the 3DS's pricing, the Wii and DS were comrades in arms, benefitting from the bubble era they co-existed in. The Switch isn't the same proposition, it's unique pitch was being able to play your home games on the go - outside of that one point it's an incredibly traditional console experience which, after five generations, has finally seen Nintendo reclaim major traditional console territory. With so much consumer loyality being tied to their online accounts etc and the ecosystems they are used to it feels, to me, that Nintendo would have been utterly stupid to throw a curveball with Switch 2 and unless their sales suffer a major decline, they should take Sony's lead and stick with what works because they're heavily on course to be one of only two companies left standing in the console space. They have no end of peripheral and software options to demonstrate their innovation with.

There's loads in here and I appreciate your thoughtful response. I won't respond point by point as we'd be all here day!

But to sort of try and synthesise where I think we differ is that I honestly do think you underrate the brilliance of the DS and Wii. You say they're gimmick-led, curveballs and existed in a 'bubble', but I don't personally think that's an accurate characterisation.

I almost get the impression - and correct me if I'm wrong - that you feel they were both kind of lucky breaks. But you don't trip over 100m and 150m (respectively) selling console designs in the street. We know from the history of the many well-funded companies who've released console flops that making a successful gaming platform is devilishly hard.

To your point that their innovations are simply reactions to their position in the games market - I don't see how that's a bad thing? Nintendo's position in the dying days of the Cube and GBA was that they had their backs up against the wall.

They were faced with a massively diminished marketshare, a lethally efficient new incumbent (Sony) and literally the then world's largest company also aggressively grabbing a piece of the pie (MS).

For them to recognise that position and to react by developing products which enabled them to dominate both of their competitors was pretty mindboggling to be honest. The vast majority of companies wouldn't have the creativity, expertise or simply the balls to go so dramatically against the grain and to do it so successfully.

Not only that, but they went on to repeat the same trick. Recognising that they had badly miscalculated the appeal of a Wii 2 - which I honestly don't think would have sold much more sans gamepad, maybe 20-25m instead of 13m - they again designed something radical and unique and again smashed the competition.

To look at that and say, well, they've had some lucky breaks but it's time to settle down and stick with what works, seems to totally go against all the evidence we have for why Nintendo are as relevant as they ever were today.