Nintendo Switch 2: Thread 01

[dataDave]

I actually think the idea of a dock that makes it more powerful is a much more un-Nintendo idea, since it doesn't really add to the fun and interactivity but simply beefs up the specs - something which we can already see many Switch buyers aren't too bothered about, undeterred as they are by shelling out £300 for such dated hardware.

The (early) 2017 Switch was practically a repurposed late-2012 WiiU. It was an adequate side-ways upgrade. I don't think they'll be doing that again - especially not for 2024/25. It's going to need to look better than that at 4K/60. They have the deal with Nvidia who in turn have the tech to do that effortlessly and (for now) affordable, but unfortunately not in a mobile format.

Paying more to increase framerate and resolution already proved less than overwhelmingly popular with even the more 'core gaming' PS/Xbox audience with the One X and PS4 Pro, and I think it's even less likely to resonate with the majority of Switch buyers.

How have the PS5 and XSX done so far? That's why we're discussing a new console, and not a Switch Pro. I agree that a Switch Pro which provides a locked 60FPS for stuff like Pokemon, Link's Awakening and Kirby would be totally pointless at this stage (or indeed any stage), or that you may as well call the OLED model the Pro.

[wakka]

Think we're talking at cross purposes - I agree a Switch 1 Pro is def out of the question.

I'm talking above about the 'super dock' you mentioned, which I assumed to be a (notional) beefed up optional dock which would boost the Switch 2 graphics beyond its onboard capabilities. Have I got that wrong?

If the 'super dock' boosted the Switch 2 capabilities to a Switch 2.5, that would effectively be like an One X or a PS4 Pro, and I don't think it would be a go-er at all, is what I'm trying to say. Increased frame rates/resolution on their own have a limited draw for mainstream audiences, and I don't think it's very Nintendo to emphasise technical capabilities in that way.

No doubt the Switch 2 will be more powerful than Switch 1, but that's table stakes. I honestly think the next machine needs to do more than that to match or exceed Switch 1's sales performance.

My thought is basically that replacing the current dock with the ability to wirelessly stream (and the attendant gameplay possibilities of that that I mentioned), would be an interesting option for how it could 'do more'.

[dataDave]

Think we're talking at cross purposes - I agree a Switch 1 Pro is def out of the question.

I'm talking above about the 'super dock' you mentioned, which I assumed to be a (notional) beefed up optional dock which would boost the Switch 2 graphics beyond its onboard capabilities. Have I got that wrong?

If the 'super dock' boosted the Switch 2 capabilities to a Switch 2.5, that would effectively be like an One X or a PS4 Pro, and I don't think it would be a go-er at all, is what I'm trying to say. Increased frame rates/resolution on their own have a limited draw for mainstream audiences, and I don't think it's very Nintendo to emphasise technical capabilities in that way.

No doubt the Switch 2 will be more powerful than Switch 1, but that's table stakes. I honestly think the next machine needs to do more than that to match or exceed Switch 1's sales performance.

My thought is basically that replacing the current dock with the ability to wirelessly stream (and the attendant gameplay possibilities of that that I mentioned), would be an interesting option for how it could 'do more'.

That's right. A mobile chip by itself certainly isn't going to cut the mustard in 2025, especially not if it has to last another seven to eight years after that.

Currently, the Switch draws a little more power when docked to OC itself a tad - providing the juice to output above the native 720p found on the device itself. Maybe they'll expand upon this for the next hardware. Even if the new device is a slightly more powerful Deck (realistic), a dock with some form of Nvidia DLSS-powered upscaler will push those visuals at 4K/60 with relative ease. This aligns with my prediction in that we can expect PS4 Pro levels of grunt while docked, as they've historically been a whole generation behind the mainstream. I think this is a realistic expectation of a 2025 device with a €400 price point.

If they lose the dock, the extra power, the charging capabilities, USB/LAN ports, the minimalist AV presence, etc. and go instead with some kind of Firestick-like stream dongle (which the kids will lose) I'd be very surprised. I can't even see how they could possibly make that look appealing over a reveal video. I can imagine perhaps a wireless magnetic dock that could also be wall-mounted, that'd be pretty slick.

I'd personally like to see more/all RTX features, but of course I'm dreaming about that. A true Tory Dock armed with all the latest and fancy Nvidia GPU tech would price too many out (unless Nintendo decide to take massive hits on every machine sold - which they could do easily if they wanted to, but we all know they wouldn't), and not too many devs are even flexing ray-tracing properly yet. Still, it'd be hilarious to see a Nintendo machine being able to perform like a 3060 system. That would silence so much of the internet.

[nonny]

I don't see them ditching the overall design of the Switch going forwards... they make way too much bringing out different colours and tie-in limited edition joy-cons for it to be a wildlu different approach to things.

I do think a pro "dock" for enhanced TV mode is probably where they're going to land... to the point I'd be very surprised if that piece of the puzzle didn't happen. Mainly because it feels like the simplest approach to adding more power (given the extra space it affords and it not needing to add bulk to the actual handheld as much etc...).

What chip they add to the actual unit itself is the hard part. Agree a mobile chip doesn't really feel like it has the legs to go several years but anything more powerful feels like it brings its own complexities.

[dataDave]

What chip they add to the actual unit itself is the hard part. Agree a mobile chip doesn't really feel like it has the legs to go several years but anything more powerful feels like it brings its own complexities.

This is the question. I reckon in handheld mode at 5" the current tech is comfortably adequate. Feeding that to a 4K TV not so much.

[wakka]

We're in agreement on the power side of things. The Steam Deck but a bit smaller is what we're gonna get.

In terms of TV output, Nintendo will target a 'good enough' resolution I expect, probably 1440p. That's what most PS5 games I've played in 'Performance' mode output at and to be honest it looks great. 4K looks better, but not earthshakingly so, and I don't think Nintendo will consider it that important.

I honestly think it would be really cool if it could connect wirelessly, and I think there are a bunch of ways to package that as an appealing prospect - but maybe it's not really possible. I don't know enough about the tech to say.

[speedlolita]

I would put money on the next Nintendo hardware aiming for 1080p max.

Edit: That is, unless they leverage DLSS.

[Cassius_Smoke]

It'll still be portable/docked. It would be silly to split the developers back to handheld and console.
Display 1440p with VRR (to help battery use)
Joycon 2 will be more shaped, slightly larger and more comfortable
Guts will be slightly below PS4 Pro level

[Neon Ignition]

I would happily guess - 720p screen and when docked it will be '4k Capable' but will largely operate at 1080p. 1440p is nice but too inconsistently supported and Nintendo tends to prefer universal options. It'll also be less visually impressive than the Deck due to cost considerations unless we're still really far out from release. The power aspect is irrelevant to Nintendo

[nonny]

I'd be happy with 720p on a 7-8" screen in handheld mode and a solid 1080p60 when docked in all titles.

[wakka]

If you abandon the 'solid 60fps in all titles' part of that, sounds reasonable

[Cassius_Smoke]

That's why I think a VRR display would be good. Then it can be 40fps and use less power than if it was 60fps, but it'd look and play nicer.
Neon is probably right about it being '4k' when docked, but it'll have a hand full of games that ever hits that mark. 1080p upscaled when docked is more like it.
They could add a better processor in the Dock, like the psvr breakout box, that handles the video output...But that doesn't feel very Nintendo.

[CMcK]

What kind of interface would be required to offer enough bandwidth between the handheld unit and the GPU in the dock? Maybe some sort of ML cores could reside in the dock dedicated to upscaling rather than enough shaders to render the image at 4k.

[briareos_kerensky]

The USB-C on the standard Switch is enough already, in terms of bandwidth, for up to 1080p60, maybe with HDR...depends of which version of USB 3 the Switch has. Putting anything outside the console itself would increase the price though, between high bandwith ports, required controller(s) for those ports, and cooling (whether active or passive); I really doubt Nintendo will do something like that.

[MarioMark]

GoldenEye on Switch is basically the N64 rom port as expected with online split screen (slow down included lol), there’s a good guide here on how to trick your Switch to play it with modern controls similar to the Xbox version https://youtu.be/EMrbREfWnGQ