Lost

[Miguel007]

Best moment for me has to be:



Also the previous scene where Locke's driving home from the hospital which leads to the above, the music, the acting, the emotion - Locke's been my favourite character all the way through.

[rmoxon]

Jack's stubborn, petulant, with a huge chip on his shoulder. Close minded and self righteous. It's now, at the end, he's bearable. He's been responsible for many deaths through his actions.

locke's always been the hero of the show to me. Jack's invariably been an obnoxious twat. Imo

Errm ok then, guess youre watching a completely different show to me...

Locke was probabaly a more intresting character than Jack is but hes hardly the hero, locke caused deaths, such as Boons way back in season one, and didnt he stab that british woman who came to the island with Miles and Faraday in the back? hardly the mark of a hero, he was full on psycho at one point and as evil as Ben which makes me wonder why people think things should work out well for him.

I cant remember Jack causing any deaths actualy (besides julliets but then he created an alternate timeline so his plan actualy worked and her death wasnt really his fault anyway), im not sure where you get that from... you seem to have watched somthing totaly different to me.

Unless your post was a joke? that would make sense I guess.

[Matt]

Errm ok then, guess youre watching a completely different show to me...

Locke was probabaly a more intresting character than Jack is but hes hardly the hero, locke caused deaths (such as Boons way back in season one, and didnt he stab that british woman who came to the island with miles and faraday in the back? hardly the mark of a hero, he was full on psycho at one point), I cant remember jack causing any deaths actualy (besides julliets but then he created an alternate timeline so his plan actualy worked and her death wasnt really his fault anyway), im not sure where you get that from... you seem to have watched somthing totaly different to me.

Unless your post was a joke? that would make sense I guess.

Seriously? Look at what Jack does and the deaths that follow. His actions cause deaths, even if he isn't pulling the trigger himself. Usually his lack of judgement. His need to prove himself by running headfirst into a fight and dragging others along with him.

[rmoxon]

Seriously? Look at what Jack does and the deaths that follow. His actions cause deaths, even if he isn't pulling the trigger himself. Usually his lack of judgement. His need to prove himself by running headfirst into a fight and dragging others along with him.

I dont know what you mean, what deaths has he caused? even recently he would

->Open Spoiler<-

have saved Jin, Sun and Sayid if Sawyer had just listened and trusted him

. Hes never done anything on the show but at least try to save people from death and has never caused anyones IMO. Unlike Locke, who as I said was pretty much a raving Psychotic before he died.

[randombs]

But Locke's bald and in a wheelchair. An underdog if I ever saw one.

[rmoxon]

He was never in a wheelchair on the Island and I really doubt that makes it ok that he went Psycho and killed people before he died anyway to be honest... I'm really just shocked that someone would find that "Heroic".

[SuperBeatBoy]

Sky 1 are airing the final episode 5am Monday Morning the same time as it is shown in the states. Don't know if i could be arsed to stay up till 5am to watch it though, considering its on for 2hrs.

[EJG1980]

Sky 1 are airing the final episode 5am Monday Morning the same time as it is shown in the states. Don't know if i could be arsed to stay up till 5am to watch it though, considering its on for 2hrs.

Sky are fibbing a bit on that one. It's being shown at 8PM on the east coast of America, which is 1AM here. They're screwing us by four hours

[Matt]

I dont know what you mean, what deaths has he caused? even recently he would

->Open Spoiler<-

have saved Jin, Sun and Sayid if Sawyer had just listened and trusted him

. Hes never done anything on the show but at least try to save people from death and has never caused anyones IMO. Unlike Locke, who as I said was pretty much a raving Psychotic before he died.

Ah, now Jack only nearly saved them because he now has faith. If only he'd listened to Locke in the first place....

You seriously can't recall people being killed because of Jack's actions? He may have tried to save people, but his inability to see beyond his own ego and preset beliefs has caused many deaths. Look at the evacuation of the island, when everyone except the main characters died. If he'd listened to Locke or Ben, many people wouldn't have died. I bring that particular incident up because you mentioned that Locke was "raving psychotic" by then. Was he? From where I was sitting, Locke was trying to avert the invasion of the Island and prevent a massacre.

Which is now the mantle Jack will have to adopt.

For me, Jack has never been the hero. In fact, I think it was only last season Jack said that many people had died because of his decisions, so he was now going to listen to Sawyer and let him take the lead. That was a key turning point in his character arc, the realisation that, yes, he had been acting like an idiot, people had died. Now he's found faith, he's reclaiming his "destiny".

If Locke was "psychotic", then Jack is as well - he's sounding more and more like old Locke in every episode.

Yes, it will likely end the way it's being played out right now. However, this is Lost where nothing is certain and it would be a strange end to the show if there was no final twist or revelation.

[rmoxon]

Ah, now Jack only nearly saved them because he now has faith. If only he'd listened to Locke in the first place....

You seriously can't recall people being killed because of Jack's actions? He may have tried to save people, but his inability to see beyond his own ego and preset beliefs has caused many deaths. Look at the evacuation of the island, when everyone except the main characters died. If he'd listened to Locke or Ben, many people wouldn't have died. I bring that particular incident up because you mentioned that Locke was "raving psychotic" by then. Was he? From where I was sitting, Locke was trying to avert the invasion of the Island and prevent a massacre.

Which is now the mantle Jack will have to adopt.

For me, Jack has never been the hero. In fact, I think it was only last season Jack said that many people had died because of his decisions, so he was now going to listen to Sawyer and let him take the lead. That was a key turning point in his character arc, the realisation that, yes, he had been acting like an idiot, people had died. Now he's found faith, he's reclaiming his "destiny".

If Locke was "psychotic", then Jack is as well - he's sounding more and more like old Locke in every episode.

Yes, it will likely end the way it's being played out right now. However, this is Lost where nothing is certain and it would be a strange end to the show if there was no final twist or revelation.

It wasnt Lockes words that made him psychotic, it was the way he was acting, killing people, threatening others. He wasnt wrong in his motives, but his actions were nothing other than evil.

Jack was wrong, but his motives were always were for the good of his people, I dont think Locke ever thought about anyone but himself really, He convinced himself that he was there for a reason becuase the island fixed him. He himself was also wrong many times, for example he thought the smoke monster wouldnt kill him becuase he had a purpose and as a result nearly died at the end of the first season... oh but look who saved him... Jack.

Jack has always been the hero of the show, the very first scene was him saving folk left, right, and centre after the plane crashed and the probabaly the final scene of the show will have him save some more, its what the characther has always done and always has been, wether you like him or not hes the hero of the show, its just a fact.

[Matt]

Opinions. Like it or not, it's not a fact

You do realise that Jack was meant to be killed off early in the first season right? Kate was meant to be the lead role. But they kept him in as the housewives liked him. I read it somewhere, not sure where. The point here is Jack wasn't setup to be the long term hero from the first episode.

I pointed out Jack has caused many deaths through his bullheadedness. That was my point and it still stands.

Clearly we have different views of what a Hero is. I don't like my heroes acting like twats, running around with a hot temper thinking they know it all. I don't think there's ANYONE on the Island Jack hasn't threatened with a gun at one stage or the other to get his own way.

[rmoxon]

Opinions. Like it or not, it's not a fact

You do realise that Jack was meant to be killed off early in the first season right? Kate was meant to be the lead role. But they kept him in as the housewives liked him. I read it somewhere, not sure where. The point here is Jack wasn't setup to be the long term hero from the first episode.

I pointed out Jack has caused many deaths through his bullheadedness. That was my point and it still stands.

Clearly we have different views of what a Hero is. I don't like my heroes acting like twats, running around with a hot temper thinking they know it all. I don't think there's ANYONE on the Island Jack hasn't threatened with a gun at one stage or the other to get his own way.

Jack was never meant to be killed off once they had filmed episodes, it was only in early scripting. And they didnt keep him in becuase housewifes liked him, they kept him in becuase the producers liked Mathew Fox and thought he was a good "leading man". The character has always been set up as the hero.

You keep pointing out that hes caused deaths but your yet to give examples, the people who died during the escape from the island dosent count, he lead people off the island but they all wanted to leave. None of them were going to listen to evil Ben or crazy locke. At that point Jack was their leader so they followed him and he got them off the island, which was heroic.

You might as well be saying a war hero isnt one really becuase people under his command died, and even though he single handedly performed his duty against the odds and provided victory for his side he shouldnt get a medal.

Oh yeah, and i think Jack has threatened about three people with a gun in 6 seasons, I can only think of Locke, Tom and Desmond, maybe he threatened Ben too? Maybe there has been a couple more, but its not many, I'm pretty sure most of the other characters have given out more threats and with Desmond it wasnt even really a threat, it was just becuase he was unsure of him when he found him in the hatch.

Basicaly you dont seem to like the character, which is fine, i'm not really bothered if you think hes a twat, but youre basicaly making stuff up about what hes done now just becuase you dont want to admit that hes the hero of the show for some reason.

Well either that or you have a very selective memory of these characters over the course of the last 6 or 7 years.

[Matt]

You keep pointing out that hes caused deaths but your yet to give examples, the people who died during the escape from the island dosent count.

OK don't take this the wrong way but I'm not wasting my time on this. The character himself says he keeps getting people killed, but I have a selective memory You're accusing me "making stuff up" and frankly I'm only interested in discussing Lost, not having an argument with someone who doesn't accept someone elses opinion. Almost as self righteous as Jack

Watch the show again.

[Matt]

Was wondering exactly what Desmond has to do. Sure,, it seems like he's getting people aligned in alt timeline to fight Flocke in some way. However as he can survive EM, maybe Jack has to lead him to the Light as he can enter it and not die.

[rmoxon]

OK don't take this the wrong way but I'm not wasting my time on this. The character himself says he keeps getting people killed, but I have a selective memory You're accusing me "making stuff up" and frankly I'm only interested in discussing Lost, not having an argument with someone who doesn't accept someone elses opinion. Almost as self righteous as Jack

Watch the show again.

Ive watched every season multiple times thank you.

And he wouldnt be very heroic if he didnt blame himself when everyone didnt survive... dosent mean its really his fault though.

Our arguement was about who was the hero of the show anyway, and for some reason you said you think its Locke. But if YOU watch the show again you will see jack perform numerous heroic acts (which makes him a Hero by all acounts) and Locke perform absolubtley no heroic acts (which means he could certainly never be considered a hero). So its not about the fact that i'm not accepting your opinion,. its just that unlike you I have proper facts on the show that back mine up.

If you actualy go through the entire show again you will see that nearly everyone, at some point, has been more of a hero than Locke. I liked the character, but again, before he died i relaly considered him the bad guy, he had killed people and become out of control. His mission to bring everyone back to the island had failed and thats why he wanted to die, he missed his chance at redemption.