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[Matt]

Great news Spag! Hope that isn't in a week though

Marklar, LOL at using the BBC health site Sorry mate I don't buy that 11-15% of your diet should be protein. Think about it from a calorie perspective. Say you're on a maintenance of 2500cals a day, that would equate to 275-375 cals coming from protein, which would equal 68.5-93.75g of protein a day! That's not enough for any athlete. Not to mention the most of the other calories would need to come from carbs, so say 65%, which would mean you'd eat more than 400g of carbs a day.

I think you should get that much protein WHILE exercising - so if you have an energy drink while running throw some protein in to it.

Running isn't my thing, and as usual I'd suggest anyone taking advice from any of us enthusiasts on the forum do research themselves and come to their own conclusions. There is lots of conflicting research and lots of conflicting opinions, get informed and make your own one up.

But that BBC one reads like an old NHS textbook - saying it's pointless taking more than 2g per kg of bodyweight per day? I don't know any serious bodybuilder who'd drop that low! There is a lot of research, both anecdotal and scientific, that proves that wrong. Even if it said 2g / lb there would be some big guys saying you can get more!

[rumbletum]

Yeah, the 'protein is bad for you' is a myth unless you have an existing kidney complaint, then you should be a bit more careful.

As for running, it's not necessary to take protein while running, but it should be a part of your recovery drink/meal. And indeed, a good portion of protein (be it powder or real food) should be a part of every meal.

One thing worth pointing out is you often see RDA's (recommended daily amounts) quoted for vitamins, guidelines for protein consumption etc. Be aware these guidelines are based on a normal sedentary person, and are requirements to prevent disease, not a recommendation for optimum health/sports performance.

[Matt]

As far I was aware RDA's are just a load of marketing bollocks. As Rumbletum says, don't pay them much attention. If necessary take a couple of vitamin pills, if you're buying standard Holland and Barrett types.

Personally, I'm on the ProLab Training Paks, and top that up with an extra 400iu Vitamin E and 3g Vitamin C (so 800 E and 4g C total).

[rumbletum]

As far I was aware RDA's are just a load of marketing bollocks. As Rumbletum says, don't pay them much attention. If necessary take a couple of vitamin pills, if you're buying standard Holland and Barrett types.

There is science behind them, but for example, the RDA for Vit C is a level that would just prevent scurvy, whereas a higher level may (or may not) offer further health benefits.

[Matt]

What I meant is the RDA is just a marketing figure, and I don't think the Government has issued a "true" RDA. I've seen different RDA's on different brands

[rumbletum]

There are official figures for RDA issued by the Dept of Health, the reason you've seen different ones is because (nerd mode on) different countries (and EU) have different RDA's, and often express them in slightly different ways.

Thus proving our point that they're not much help

[Commander Marklar]

Marklar, LOL at using the BBC health site

Hey, just for starters

Nah, the 11-15% comes from just researching around /me grabs book. Something like "Walking and Running", for example, wrote by a bunch of Ph. D. heads has the same information in it. Especially regarding protein. Yes, you need it, but no, you don't need anymore than what's on the BBC website. The only way to build muscle is to exercise it with effective rest. You do need protein, yes, but not to supplement muscle growth else I'm sure you could just sit there all day, stuff you face with protein and look like Popeye

Again, while muscle fibres are made of mostly protein and water and study has shown that boosting protein intake without performing some kind of muscle-building exercise will not enhance muscle growth; nor will eating extra protein increase endurance, strength or power. Consuming more than a balanced diet of roughly 15% (for an athlete) will not contribute to greater muscle growth. And this comes from someone who has had experience body building.

Athlete's don't eat 2,500 calories a day And yeah, I wholeheartedly recommend doing research into the subject for anyone getting into exercise. Everyone is different and it is an amazing subject.

[Ish]

Great news Spag! Hope that isn't in a week though

Marklar, LOL at using the BBC health site Sorry mate I don't buy that 11-15% of your diet should be protein. Think about it from a calorie perspective. Say you're on a maintenance of 2500cals a day

2500 is nowhere near enough for an athlete. I'm not an athelete (well a rank a keen hobbyist perhaps!) but with my running and cycling I have to eat 3000 a day to maintain my weight.

Any less and I lose weight and rapidly run out of energy.

[Matt]

My 2500 calorie was just an example. Actually I'm dieting on around 2100 cals at the moment, losing a kilo a week nice and steady. Energy isn't great, and training isn't as intense as usual, but once the fat's off I can get back to 3000

Just remember different people have different metabolic rates, and some people like myself have to really be careful with calorific intake.

Marklar, again totally disagree mate. Sorry, but 15% protein is just nuts. You'll never grow muscle. At the lowest a bodybuilder would have 30-35%, with maybe 55% carbs. In a diet state, the protein may get to 60%. I don't know any big guy who eat less that 200g a day, and most eat more. General rule for bodybuilders (my area, but it's a good place to state) I've started before is 1.5-2g per pound of bodyweight for protein, and anywhere between 2-4g for carbs.

Protein maintains muscle and organs, and you can't hope to build anymore without adding more protein. You may think you are, but you'll probably just burning off fat and looking more muscular as a result. Refer to my favourite site for this kind of info bodybuilders.com

You are right about rest and recuperation, very important. But again, you need the protein to aid this process.

[Ish]

You are right about rest and recuperation, very important. But again, you need the protein to aid this process.

Thats the thing I noticed most about taking on extra protein: I seemed to recover much quicker.

[Matt]

I'm still trying to learn about exactly what you need. Recent research seems to indicate that Branched Chain Amino Acids (BCAAs) are the critical component, particularly L-Leucine, for recovery. I know you need a full amino spectrum for muscle growth (eggs being the perfect protein in terms of amino ratio) but recovery seems more BCAA based.

When I go on my Bulk phase (a few months away) I'm planning on chucking a lot of different things down my throat and seeing what happens, one of which will be a BCAA powder (probably SciVation Xtend as it's reasonably priced compared to others), and supplement with additional L-Leucine. I'll take this during my workout, with my normal recovery shake afterwards, and possibly supplement an additional 5g of Leucine before bed.

Thing is you can get really carried away with all these things, far as I'm concerned the most important thing is just getting enough protein, regardless!

Add in good training (45 mins), limit forced reps (NONE if you're a beginner), don't overtrain and rest a lot, and you're away

[spagmasterswift]

I've kind of tweaked the diet you mentioned but this is what I'm having today (any thoughts Chain?)

8.00 AM
1 x Weetabix and a small amount of Semi-skimmed milk

10.30 AM
Apple

1.00PM
Chicken Soup

3.30PM
Banana

8.00PM
Couple of Beers (going to a screening so wont get to eat until later)

10:30PM
Beans on Toast

Have been having sensible meals (loved the jacket potato with Cottage Cheese I had yesterday with some chicken and salad), do you think eating Beans on Toast late should be a No No?

[marcus]

Something seems to be missing from this diet of yours Spags, but Im no expert - it seems a little.. sparse?

Generally heres what I eat, and I know its probably not great -

9.00 Tea, Skimmed milk, 2 sugar

10.30 Bag of Snack A Jacks, Coke Zero

12.30 Jacket Potato & Cheese, Banana, Apple, Doritos and Coke Zero

3.00 Tea, Skimmed milk, 2 sugar

6.00 Tea, Skimmed milk, 2 sugar

8.00 Varies - Lasangne and Salad, Pizza and Salad, Chinese, Chicken and Chips

9.00 Tea, Skimmed milk, 2 sugar

I plan on adding 2 x protein drinks somewhere there, maybe in place of the 10.30 snack and after evening exercise/sports I do.

[Ish]

Literally I'd die on what you eat spagmaster. Today so far:

Bowl of Crunchy Nut Cornflake
Apple Juice
Protein Shake
Pork Pie
Large Tuna + Mayo Roll
Banana
Shortbread
2x chicken kievs
Low fat chips
A beer

This is likely to be followed by:

Chocolate cheesecake
Another bowl of cereal
Another protein shake

In fairness I think I've got a high metabolism coupled with a lot of exercise. But I am (and always have been!) permanently ravenous.

[charlesr]

Spag: You could try adding a bit more useful stuff to your breakfast since you aren't eating much the rest of the day. Sprinkle on some seeds (linseed is nice) and/or nuts if you like that sort of thing. Add variety with an egg so you don't get bored of weetabix (not sure if that's possible - weetabix is lovely). Actually... eat an egg as well a couple of days a week. You can eat too little, especially if you are going to the gym too.

Good to see semi-skimmed and not skimmed milk. Your body needs the fat in semi-skimmed to help you use the calcium properly.

You don't mention on there what you are drinking (water-wise). That's just as important as the food.